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Post by sophielouise on Jan 8, 2010 15:44:16 GMT 1
As I'm at a bit of a loss, I really am. So - a bit of background, for those that don't remember. I've had Chester for about eighteen months - and we have come a long way. He was very nervous/reactive/stressy when I first got him - he would literally panic in a stable and spent all his time weaving. He was difficult to do anything with – leading, grooming, rugging up etc etc. I appreciate the fact he will always be sharper & more of a worrier than with other horses – I long ago stopped trying to compare him with other horses who would lead, stand, tie up and be stabled without a murmour and do whatever with … This spring and summer, things were going well –owed in part, to working with Zoe an moving yards to somewhere with more routine, assistance and for the first time ever, he really started to chill out. In the Summer, he was great – he was out for most of the afternoon and all night but obviously no we are in Winter, he is now having to spend more time stabled – which I think is part of the problem. We’ve gone back to stressing in the stable – he’s not weaving as much as he used to, but he still looks constantly worried and if he has to come in earlier (even if it is just five or ten minutes) then all breaks loose. This afternoon – I’ve never, ever seen him like he was … and that is saying a lot! Vertical rearing, bucking (… literally hooves were cm’s from my head …), we’ve had to replace stable door bolts where he throws himself at the door. I took him in the sandschool – where he was just as bad. Quite how I hung onto him, is anyone’s guess …. I’ve put him on a calmer, as he was on Equine America’s magnesium, but I’m now trying NAF Magic, to see if that helps. I think there are two issues – obviously the longer stabling, doesn’t help him, but I also think he’s becoming too attached and can’t cope with any deviation from routine … which in theory, is fine. Practically however, is a logistical nightmare and he just becomes dangerous … I really, really don’t know what to do – I honestly thought we were making solid, progress with him … but it feels like we are right back at square one, eighteen months later …  Any help or idea’s are much appreciated? I’m thinking I need a RA again, which is fine – but I’m half tempted to try to find somewhere which does 24/7 turn-out and see what happens … although, I’m not sure how good my chances are of finding somewhere in Gatwick that does 24/7 turn-out all year around! |
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 8, 2010 16:00:43 GMT 1
sorry to hear you are having set backs.
you have said contact RA again, and i would agree with that
and also said 24/7 turnout, and again i would definetly agree with that. some horses cant handle being stabled, where as others could live in their stable all the time.
The weather at the moment with lack of turnout and lots of snow wont be helping to keep him calm.
i would also look at what you are feeding, no oats and low in sugars etc
good luck :-)
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Post by misty on Jan 8, 2010 16:00:48 GMT 1
What are you feeding him?
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Post by sophielouise on Jan 8, 2010 16:04:54 GMT 1
Spillers Happy Hoof and high fibre nuts. He was on a conditioning mix - which is supposedly non-heating (as he does drop weight easily) but he's been taken off that now, just in case - and ad-lib hay.
The frustrating thing is - he can be fine - and other days, he can be a complete nightmare. Obviously there is a reason for it - but I can't see a reason or rhyme ... on a 'bad' day, there are obvious triggers like being stabled or being seperated, but there's nothing that suggests he is more or less likely to have a good or bad day ...
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 8, 2010 16:14:13 GMT 1
maybe you could start a diary, could be helpful for RA also.
write down everything, what he was fed, what time he was put out,what time brought in etc etc.
write down everything
any remarks on behaviour things like that.
you may see a pattern forming
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Post by bryony83 on Jan 8, 2010 16:19:36 GMT 1
Sophie that sounds scarey!! Please keep safe.
Is there any horse he can see in his stable or is it worth getting a mirror? I've got my horse stabled 24/7 at the moment due to an injury and the thoughts of getting her out to walking hand was terrifying after she bolted once and threw herself around another time on the end of the lead rope in the sand school. I found that getting her out twice a day and walking round the yard calmed her down as she was moving forwards and going somewhere (although 20 times round a yard is dull).
Definately get auntie Zoe back out. Its amazing the ideas she comes up with and what she spots
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Post by 3pinkmonkeys on Jan 8, 2010 16:21:53 GMT 1
When we first had Solo he settled very well, but when it came to being stabled (night) in the winter he would stress and drop all the weight he had put on. It took 2 winters for him to settle and I find the more 'work' he does the more sensible he is. We also found that feeding him spillers was heating him, but Allen&Page seems to be ok.
Obviously you need some sort of help now, but he also needs time imo.
Good luck
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Post by K8 on Jan 8, 2010 16:33:13 GMT 1
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Post by sophielouise on Jan 8, 2010 17:28:45 GMT 1
Being out his stable does help - but it doesn't matter if he is out for ten minutes or two hours, on a bad day, when you put him back in again - he just stresses himself out again.
In the sandschool, he threw all his toys out his pram, we worked through it (which is something I don't think I could have done last year) but as soon as he was back in the stable, he jsut switched back on into maniac mode.
There's honestly no obvious trigger or reason to if he will 'just' weave a little bit or whether he'll be intent on breaking down the door and his neck with it ...
Nupafeed might be worth a try - I'm not sur how long NAF Magic is supposed to take to work, he's been on it for about two days now, so I suppose I need to give it longer.
I know the weather and change of routine hasn't helped recently - but realistically, it isn't practical or safe to have this kind of response every time some minor detail in his routine is changed ...
I really don't know - I just feel like, we are right back at (almost) square one after eighteen months. I suppose the only difference is that, he'll eventually settle down - whereas before he wouldn't really - but, it's just waiting for the next time something happens ...
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Post by wabuska on Jan 8, 2010 17:40:33 GMT 1
Can he see his companions from his box, are there talk-bars?
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Post by sned on Jan 8, 2010 17:45:21 GMT 1
This is going to sound completely nuts and im not suggesting there is anything wrong with your horse but if he was human he could be classed as autistic. This is very typical of people with autism, they cant handle having their routine changed.
A friend of mine from work has a little boy who is autistic and any slight change from what he is used to sends him nuts screaming and shouting. As i said im not suggesting anything but reading this made me wonder if animals can have similar conditions to us?!?!?
just a thought
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Post by Lady Equine on Jan 8, 2010 17:45:21 GMT 1
Hi Sophie...
It's so frustrating, i have the same problems and i do believe some horses feel happier outside and in work regardless of season.
I have a girl that creates merry hell if she is in alone or left for too long alone, she has an aray of hoof shape holes in her stable. I spent may to october building her time away from the others and alone in her stable until i was able to leave her in and pooh pick. Then her 1st night in for winter and she's back to that frustrating square 1.
She is on winter hols at the mo, no land to ride on or school and the lanes are like an ice rink; but i am totally convinced she wants to work and imo, it would distract her, use some energy.
I used nupafeed on my 1st ever outing with her, we came 8/9 cos she would not stand still, that was pre IH, the following year out and IH knowledge we came 1st out of 12....i am not convinced plastic remedies are the answer.
I also had an interesting conversation with my farrier about sedatives for my dog on bonfire night. He explained that although it relaxes the muscles, sedation heightens the hearing and can stress the animal even more as it's unable to react.
I know if i was faced with this again or anything beyond my knowledge, i would most certainly go back to my RA over instant calmers.
However, horses for courses like, it may work for you..
Good luck and keep with him.. you'll get there..
LE
x
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Post by anastasia55555 on Jan 8, 2010 17:46:28 GMT 1
There's honestly no obvious trigger or reason to if he will 'just' weave a little bit or whether he'll be intent on breaking down the door and his neck with it ... it is easier for me to say having not been there, but i would say from what you have typed that being stabled is the trigger. I am lucky in the fact i have the choice of turn out 24/7-365 days and a stable if i want it. Toffee has spent alot more time in over the last week or so, and has become very stroppy, and with a chance will flatten you at the door and run. she doesnt mind being in at night, she gets food and warmth, but she doesnt really want to be in any more than that. Even the normally most wonderfully behaved horse in world, could turn into a 'problem' if they disliked being stabled, but had to be. |
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Post by sophielouise on Jan 8, 2010 17:52:52 GMT 1
Hi Sophie... It's so frustrating, i have the same problems and i do believe some horses feel happier outside and in work regardless of season. I have a girl that creates merry hell if she is in alone or left for too long alone, she has an aray of hoof shape holes in her stable. I spent may to october building her time away from the others and alone in her stable until i was able to leave her in and pooh pick. Then her 1st night in for winter and she's back to that frustrating square 1. She is on winter hols at the mo, no land to ride on or school and the lanes are like an ice rink; but i am totally convinced she wants to work and imo, it would distract her, use some energy. I used nupafeed on my 1st ever outing with her, we came 8/9 cos she would not stand still, that was pre IH, the following year out and IH knowledge we came 1st out of 12....i am not convinced plastic remedies are the answer. I also had an interesting conversation with my farrier about sedatives for my dog on bonfire night. He explained that although it relaxes the muscles, sedation heightens the hearing and can stress the animal even more as it's unable to react. I know if i was faced with this again or anything beyond my knowledge, i would most certainly go back to my RA over instant calmers. However, horses for courses like, it may work for you.. Good luck and keep with him.. you'll get there.. LE x That is intresting - he's been sedated a lot these last couple of months, as he's had to be sedated for various x-raysdue to lameness, sedated to be remedially shod (which so far, has been a whopping great failure - they would be great, if they stayed on), sedated for two seperate spells of boxrest , fireworks night & NYE ... I wonder whether that has contributed - and might explain the over-reactions we are having now, as apposed to pre-sedation. I'm certainly not wanting to rely on plastic remedies, but until I've thought of a Plan B,C, D, E ... - anything helps! I s'pose, Zoe is due a call from me Monday morning! |
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lizr
Olympic Poster
Posts: 520
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Post by lizr on Jan 8, 2010 21:44:47 GMT 1
Sophie - I was going to ask about feed - have you thought of Simple systems stuff? My boy is nervous and stressy - nothing like you've described though, but I changed his feed to simple systems about 6 months ago. His temperamet has chilled completely since I put him on this. If you give them a call they are really helpful. Also I use Cool Calm and Collected calmer by equifeast. It is supposed to change the way they think about/deal with situations rather than just calm/sedate them. I have used it on 2 horses and it has worked for both but you might seesome interesting behavious during the loading period!. Lastly, I used to live at Gatwick (literally! In Charlwood, run way was at the end of my garden!) I kept my horse in Pease Pottage on Tilgate Forest. Small, private yard, about 6 stables if I recall but the lady had so much land that she was thinking about doing grass livery as well. The only reason I left was when we moved and I would go back in a flash if we moved back down your way. If you are interested, PM me and I can contact her for you and ask if she doesn't mind me giving you her number. Hope you manage to sort things out.
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