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Post by gillyano on Dec 26, 2009 20:40:17 GMT 1
My young boy hates being tied up and throws his head up and breaks the string and walks off. Even if I stand with him with a hay net he still struggles to get free. I use the 12ft line through the ring and give him a bit of slack then asking for him to move back but he keeps on doing it and cant be left. With all this snow and ice mucking out has been a nightmare as there are no enclosed areas to put him and i end up having to get someone to hold him. Its so frustrating that i've been trying (with IH help) for months and am getting no where. He also lacks spacial awareness and uses his head to barge. Any suggestions. I am using a dually by the way and have done the 5 day course - I should know how to work this out but can't. Its embarresing having to ask for help. We have tried plastic bag for head banging and bottle of stones as RA suggested.
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chloe
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Post by chloe on Dec 26, 2009 20:42:57 GMT 1
How is he at pressure release with day to day, general handling? I never actually taught my two year old to tie up - just to give to pressure (starting with leading, backing up, etc) and he's never been an issue to tie up.
I'd be inclined to leave the tying up lessons til he's able to be turned out though - starting something "new" when they're fresh and bored is unlikely to yield positive results.
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Post by gillyano on Dec 26, 2009 20:47:21 GMT 1
He is out again now thank heavens.Ok with backing up and lateral and pole work, lowers his head etc, very unspooked hence lack of impact of plastic bag on stick and bottle. Leading work is getting better after alot of planting. Had help from an RA and trainee RA since I got him. Its so weird that he still has issues on these two things despite very consistent handling.
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chloe
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Post by chloe on Dec 26, 2009 20:50:57 GMT 1
Can you easily send him back and bring him forward again without pushing or pulling? If he tends to plant, it may be that he's used to feeling pressure pulling forward (I know the temptation is to pull when they stop) so when he's tied up and pulls back, he just feels something familiar and knows he can keep pulling and "win"...? I would keep working on the leading and not tie up until he comes forward the second you take up a contact on the rope and hopefully that will just carry straight into the tying up.
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tamzin
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Post by tamzin on Dec 26, 2009 21:12:42 GMT 1
What do you do with the bottle of stones and plastic bottle?
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Post by mandal on Dec 26, 2009 21:14:25 GMT 1
gilliano please get the help on site of an RA. It really isn't embarrassing and will be so worth it even one visit will set you up and give specific advice for your situation. I've had two horses at an RA yard and a home visit and didn't find it the slightest bit embarrassing in fact I found it all inspirational and was so relieved! Something else to consider is the blocker tie ring here's a thread about it. ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ght09&action=display&thread=99741Do have an RA visit though. We think nothing of having riding lessons etc. so why should having 'training' lessons be any different.
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chloe
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Post by chloe on Dec 26, 2009 21:21:06 GMT 1
From the sounds of it, gillyano has employed both an RA and a trainee RA already...
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Post by mandal on Dec 26, 2009 21:36:24 GMT 1
Well if that's the case it must be time for clicker training then... tbh, I'd be very surprised if an RA has been out with no progress and not made further suggestions such as possible vet exam etc. I'd suggest you have a serious talk with your RA about the lack of progress. Perhaps you just don't get on with this approach for some reason gillyano?? The other thing is to have a look at your set up... is he afraid for some reason tied up in certain areas etc. etc. Mta... thanks chloe I only read gillyano's first post! Apologies as I haven't been very helpful have I! Can he go in a stable rather than be tied? I have a horse who the first time I tied her just lifted her head till the string broke! She is an accomplished 'tie breaker'. She is much improved now since general ground work and becoming much less anxious in general. Is he afraid of being tied? If he is then I personally wouldn't use a can of stones, also your timing has to be spot on for that. Perhaps you could reorganise your routine so that you are free and can be with him yourself in the meantime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2009 9:50:45 GMT 1
How long has he being doing the pulling back for? I don't remember it being an issue before.
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Post by gillyano on Dec 27, 2009 11:17:57 GMT 1
Thanks guys for all your advice and help. He moved yards a couple of months ago due to my house move and its not going at all well hence my urgent adverts for grazing, its very busy and he is easily distracted and when trying to tie is busily gawping around at all whats going on and wants to get to the haynets others leave around or to the other horses in their stables. He wasnt happy being tied at the other yard and did the same but it was near a busy road and we thought it was the traffic that upset him. The stones works when he tries to headbang when being led and isn't used for the tying practice. He hadn't learnt to break string until the yard owners looked after him one day for me and something happened, they said he was bad and wouldn't rug him for me. It was the only place available and has turned out putting us both back and I am thinking of selling him if I cant get alternative grazing as we are both miserable there. We seem to be going backwards and hes acting up with everyone not just me hence asking for help from more experienced people. Could he just be doing the adoloscent bit and will it get better? I have been advised to sell him but am torn, if its me and I'm making a mess of things I will but only want whats best for him. Its not fair for him to be miserable.
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shelley2
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Post by shelley2 on Dec 27, 2009 11:30:16 GMT 1
hi gillyano i can only agree with you a 3yr old boy in a stable for days on end will not make for a happy horse and at that age they will find "other" ways to play if it means he gets some attention?
i think with this horse clicker training would be quite difficult as he is very strongly food focused and i think this may just lead to more problems through getting frustrated and concentration would be an issue??
can i ask why he is having to go out on his own?? my own feeling is horses are herd animals and need the company of others, especially at his age the other horses will help re-enforce the lessons you are trying to teach him. he does seem to have gone backwards rather than forwards but i think that this is down to other influences rather than a mental problem. please do not be embarrassed to ask for help there is NEVER a point when we should consider ourselves to know everything and the way we learn is by questioning what we do.
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shelley2
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Post by shelley2 on Dec 27, 2009 11:31:31 GMT 1
meant to add will pm you X
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Post by Sue Palmer on Dec 27, 2009 12:05:21 GMT 1
It depends on where you are trying to tie him, but one way of working with this is to use a lunge line and put it through the ring while you hold the other end. If he's tied up outside the stable, for example, this allows you to go in the stable and muck out while he is 'tied up' outside, but if he starts to pull back you can just allow the lunge line to go with him until he stops, and then gently bring him forwards again, until he realises that pulling back doesn't actually allow him to get loose.
Sue
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shelley2
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Post by shelley2 on Dec 27, 2009 13:07:13 GMT 1
hi gillyano you must have posted whilst i was writing mine not wishing to upset anyone i really do think this may be down to something that is happening when you are not at the yard? ? i am really upset for you that somebody who does not understand him has called him "bad" and as for bad to rug i have changed rugs on him with the leadrope between my legs in the middle of the field where there were other horses can you go back in your mind and figure out when this all started to happen? he may look like a soft lump but he is quite intelligent and very sensitive to feelings, i think if he has been given a reason to not trust somebody on that yard he will be feeling very nervous and lacking confidence, he will be defensive with everybody i think i would also have to go back to the person that called him "bad" and ask what had happened IN DETAIL i think because he is generally so laid back people tend to forget his past and where he has come from, he had a very bad start, started his education very late in life maybe some people are expecting too much from him?
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Post by gillyano on Dec 27, 2009 21:18:42 GMT 1
Thanks guys, The idea of using the long line has been worked on but the design of the yard makes it very hard and they are very strict on what you can and can't do to the point of not even allowing a haynet to be hung up to keep him happy (I have to do alot whilst there are no prying eyes). He is fine with me putting rugs on but I think they rushed him when they had to put him out and he lost his confidence. Someone else said the yard owner was scared of him (which would worry him). I've got him on DIY livery but there are times that my job means I cant be there to turn out or get him in and the yard rule is that only the owner can handle clients horses (we cant do each others). The other horse in his field is only let out for small periods of time due to laminitis risk so he is getting used to being in his own field but in sight of others. On christmas day he was left out alone as they all went early to get them in and he was fine (he likes his grass). I think my confidence has taken a big bash with all the critisism I have had and in turn he has lost confidence in me but I am working on it. I will keep working it, it IS going to be better.
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