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Post by tomrabbit on Jul 11, 2009 14:51:27 GMT 1
Just wondered how peeps are getting on with the Neem Oil this year?
I know that after a thread in spring regarding stop-it-all, many people decided to try it. I was one of them. Last year my horses were plagued by biting insects. The bay had to be constantly rugged due to the severity of the lumps and bumps, as one in the saddle area put him out of action for a couple of weeks, swelling to the size of an egg.
So we started with the stop-it-all well before fly season, and we've kept going, switching to pure neem oil (which you dilute in the same manner) as it is cheaper, and we're still using it almost daily, as I make a weak solution, and spray liberally. I spray early morning, before the sun is up, and rub in to the skin. It is completely absorbed before there is any risk of them being 'fried', although this is something I know you have to be careful of with an oil based spray. I have no intention of applying it under a fly rug - the whole point is to avoid rugging!
My observations so far:
Although the horses are still annoyed by the flies etc... buzzing around them on very warm days, and I have seen horse flies actually landing on them, we have only had one lump so far this year, which is incredible. I'm guessing that this is because they don't taste nice??? Obviously it would be even better to stop the flies buzzing round too, but not having to fly rug is fantastic. It's so nice for my daughter's horse not to have bald shoulders all year round, and he really appreciates the freedom!
My main complaint with the neem oil is not the smell - you get used to that surprisingly quickly, and neet neem smells less than stop-it-all, it is the fact that my grey now attracts dirt like a magnet.
My second moan would be that neat neem oil is solid at room temperature, and only liquid on really warm days. If you leave the spray out, it goes solid in the spray tube/head, and I have ruined several sprays that way - strangely they didn't even recover after being immersed in hot water. I have now resorted to storing mine in a plastic bag almost buried in the muck heap! Sounds strange, but it keeps it warm and liquid, while the plastic bag keeps the bottle clean! The horses definitely appreciate a warm spray. I also take the spray head out and spray it till it is empty each day to avoid blockages.
Still, if we stay lump free thru August, I think I will have to accept that the neem oil works, and put up with a greyer than grey pony. I keep meaning to experiment by adding other popular deterrants, in particular citronella, as that does actually seem to repel the midges (it is the active ingredient in the famous Avon Skin so Soft). I'm not sure why citronella is no longer used in horse fly sprays. I heard of one pony who was allergic in a big way, but it seems a shame that people with non-allergic animals can't use it either.
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Post by DebbieR on Jul 11, 2009 15:30:45 GMT 1
Thanks for the update Tomrabbit. I haven't ried neem oil but I also have a horse who gets covered in lumps from fly bites & who has to wear a fly rug most of the Summer.
Sounds worth a try for Duchess but maybe I've left it too late for this year? I did try putting Fly Free in her feed earlier in the year but it didn't appear to do anything.
Novel way of keeping the neem liquid by the way! ;D
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Amanda Seater
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Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
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Post by Amanda Seater on Jul 11, 2009 15:30:51 GMT 1
citronella I believe has been stop due to photosensitivity and possible carsenogenic because of this.
I am just trialing a neem and other essential oils with aloe vera spray. it is based on neem extract rather than oil and so far it would seem to be more effective if use regulary and ther fore has a cumulative effect. Hopefullly I will have it tested and on the market later this year for next.
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sazjayp
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Post by sazjayp on Jul 11, 2009 19:04:06 GMT 1
The neem oil sounds interesting - good update!
My two have the Fly Free from Global Herbs in their feed, along with Avon Skin So Soft - one has had no lumps / bites, and the other has only had 2...pretty good going considering their paddock is near a stream and attracts a lot of flies. I am tempted to remove the Fly Free, but after seeing my friends horse plagued today I think I'll leave them on it for the rest of the summer now.
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Post by Dragonmaster on Jul 12, 2009 0:05:31 GMT 1
The whole citronella ban thing is interesting. The 'official reason' that I heard at the time was that some horses & people are allergic to it. Well some horses and some people may be allergic to almost anything!
We had a discussion on this DG some time ago about whether citronella was carcinogenic - and I can find no reference at all to that, but assuming that like most citrus oils it is a photosensitiser then if it causes sunburn it might - just might - indirectly cause skin cancer.
The oil itself is not causing cancer, the sunburn is.
This brings up 2 further points....
In order to cause sunburn on a horse that is mainly covered in fur it would only affect the hairless parts. We know horses with pink noses can get sunburnt noses, but they don't tend to get sunburnt elsewhere. It would also have to be in a fairly high concentration in the spray liquid to cause the photosensitivity.
And is citronella a photosensitiser anyway? I have not yet found any info that says it is, because it is not actually a citrus oil. The most photosensitising citrus oil is Bergamot (anyone remember Bergasol Suntan Oil?) Bergamot is a citrus fruit like a small green orange.
Citronella in fact is made from a grass, similar to lemongrass. This would indicate to me that although it smells lemony it is chemically dissimilar to citrus oils.
IMHO its all a plot by the EU and pharmaceutical companies to stop us 'self medicating' with essential oils, herbal remedies and other age old traditional methods.
Back to Stop-it-All: I have used one bottle on Rosie. It made her greasy and dirty. (she's a grey) and it was no better than the concoctions I've made myself in past years.
At the moment I'm using Tea Tree & Rosemary in Aloe Vera. The Rosemary is having a noticeable effect on stimulating hair regrowth.
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Amanda Seater
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Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
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Post by Amanda Seater on Jul 12, 2009 8:48:02 GMT 1
Dragonmaster- Yup - I agree it is more than likey an EU plot as you say!
Rosemary is said to be good for hair regrowth - but interestingly I think neem may be too.
I think with many of these herbal ways of helping things there is littel to no sientific evidence to support them - this just helps the EU with its plot!
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Post by tomrabbit on Jul 12, 2009 11:06:17 GMT 1
Dragonmaster - interesting about the Citronella oil. Strange that it is still used in human products, like Avon Stop-it-all. The pony I knew who was allergic had to have emergency vet treatment after being exposed to it, I suppose a bit like people who have a nut allergy, so I can see that you have to be careful, but with it being present in human creams etc... it must be very difficult to avoid altogether. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Stop-it-all made their pony greasy/dirty. It is really annoying when you have a grey, expecially their tail and mane. With my daughter's bay horse, you don't notice any dirt collection, although I am sure it is there! I almost stopped using it, but then I reminded myself that if I was going to give it a proper test, I had to continue all this summer, so I have. Maybe the product Amandadolby mentions, which contains neem extract rather than oil, will not have the grease effect? If you look on the Neem Team website (www.theneemteam.co.uk), there are lots of interesting neem products, and they are very helpful on the phone. I bought a huge bottle of shampoo and used it for the horses and the family - it's the same product. It's supposed to be good for headlice, but I don't know, as my kids are beyond that stage! What I really like about the pure neem oil, is that you can rub it onto sore bits, and it's safe to use on delicate areas. I have been rubbing it into my pony's heels recently, with the bonus that my hands get a dose too! Very bizarrely, I've even got to like the smell  . |
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willowsmum
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Post by willowsmum on Jul 12, 2009 14:58:57 GMT 1
The reason citronella was banned as I've heard it and this was from someone who is a horsey lotions and potions stockist is that the Europeans don't want their horsemeat to be contaminated with the stuff, so even though there is no way my angel will ever go that way I mix my own fly spray and make sure citronella is one of the ingredients, so up yours EU  ;D |
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Post by cassiejane on Jul 13, 2009 11:36:05 GMT 1
My horses run away when they see citronella oil coming out so I have assumed it must sting them, perhaps they are allergic to it, as Regal particularly is quite sensitive skinned.
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Post by Susan on Jul 13, 2009 12:59:58 GMT 1
I tested a product about 4 years ago that was supposed to be the It for stopping all fies and even horse flies.. it was a oil based and I stopped using it for reasons it made Flynn filthy.. made all this dirt come out onto the surface of his coat and he looked terrible.. and to be honest I didnt seem to stop the horse flies
So far Coopers diluted helps but doesnt stop it all. Even if used direct and wiped on it doesnt stop horseflies if the blighters want to attack..
Not sure anything works 100%
Fly rugs work in fields.. out riding rug wouldnt stop the ones who find the areas unrugged behind the belly cover and legs.. I think Night riding is the only answer.. LOL
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Post by Amanda (S Yorks) on Jul 13, 2009 14:25:43 GMT 1
I make my own flyspray in a water base, with Neem oil, tea tree, lavender, geranium, eucalyptus and bog myrtle. It works out at about 1/5 of the price of commercial flyspray per litre and works far better than anything else I've tried. It has the added bonus that I can change the concentration of ingredients depending on whether it's horse flies or midges that are the issue (it works fantastically against midges, better than commercial brands against horse flies but isn't 100% effective, but I've yet to find anything that is). Smells nice enough that I spray myself in it before hacking.
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Post by tomrabbit on Jul 13, 2009 15:41:25 GMT 1
Susan - I know what you mean about the grease - but in my case the neem oil really does seem to work against bites, although unfortunately it doesn't seem to repel flies from being bothersome. I got so fed up with his grey tail and mane that I washed them today (in neem oil shampoo of course!), which is the 3rd time this summer I've felt the need to do this - normally it's just once a year for a bath!! Still, he does smell luvvvvvverly now, and it was a good excuse to give him a nice scratch in all the itchy places that he can't get to under the swathes of highland hair. Amanda (S Yorks) - what quantities do you use in your spray? In particular, which oil is best against horseflies, and which against midges? Also, have you thought about including citronella at all? I just spent a bit of time googling citronella oil, and as far as I can see, the reason it is being phased out, is because there is insufficient data to prove that it IS safe, not that there is any evidence to prove that it ISN'T safe  . How many other products might be phased out because they have been around so long that no-one has ever thought to put them through rigorous testing? Citronella oil is also used as a flavouring apparently. |
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twiglet
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Post by twiglet on Jul 13, 2009 16:03:29 GMT 1
I have been using Stop it All this summer on a horse with severe sweet itch. I have not been as successful as some with the product but he is definitely showing some improvement. I have three horses all with sweet itch type rugs but he is the only one having the oil applied to exposed and damaged places. Some of the time he manages without a fly mask and seems to be rubbing much less.
The most interesting thing, in my mind, is that at the moment he is the only one not to be surrounded by flies, even on his (clean) rug - which has yet to be sprayed with the diluted oil mix. His rug is dark brown, the others are blue(ish) and light grey. Could that be another reason?
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Post by jen1 on Jul 13, 2009 23:17:45 GMT 1
ive been using neem oil, benzol benzoate mixed with water, i apply it after a bed bath everyday to my TB who has sweetitch seems to be doing the job
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Post by emmerrie on Jul 14, 2009 2:08:52 GMT 1
As regards to citronella oil and other essential oil the main bad reaction comes from nature Identical essential oils that are made to smell the same but are made not from a plant but synthesised in a lab and they are cheaper and used by the main industry for perfumes and toiletries etc... hence some of the reactions.
Some may have reactions to pure essential oil but normally it is cos its what I call fake and I Can smell the difference between real and the fake stuff as the chemically fake stuff makes me feel yuk, real essential oils I have no issues with.
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SYNERGY EQUINE: 
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;D
. How many other products might be phased out because they have been around so long that no-one has ever thought to put them through rigorous testing? 
