Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
Posts: 3,866
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Post by Amanda Seater on Apr 12, 2009 11:01:59 GMT 1
my thoughts are with you Sarah
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eden
Olympic Poster
Posts: 662
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Post by eden on Apr 12, 2009 11:40:04 GMT 1
Just come on line today, sarah so very sorry to hear this! he sounds a special chap. Much love x
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Post by donnalex on Apr 12, 2009 16:57:59 GMT 1
'm not sure whether it's a breed thing that means that some horses react differently to sedation and anaesthesia. In Piper's case I think it was more to do with underlying adrenalin levels and an over-riding need to flee. He fought the sedation every step of the way and began to try to get up the instant he felt he had any power at all.
That is exactly what mine did. I told the people who bought him and they were fine with it and wanted him entire for showing but I would have always worried that one day he would have had to be sedated for something. I got him with stupidly overgrown feet and he let me do them, I did one day to make it less of an ordeal. And I backed him which went quite well but he was still quite nervous of other people, especially men. I think the branding as wild foals probably has as much to answer for as the ponies themselves. It is not an ideal introduction to people is it?
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Post by melissa1787 on Apr 12, 2009 17:47:26 GMT 1
R.I.P Piper, Hugs to you Sarah. I am so sorry.
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Post by SarahW on Apr 12, 2009 18:13:21 GMT 1
I agree Donnalex. Piper's introduction to humans would have included being hot-branded three times, having his feet inspected and all of his body while tied to something solid. It's likely that he was abruptly weaned from his mother before or after this and then tied to something solid for two days to teach him to 'respect the halter' - he certainly knew how to follow a pressure without me ever explaining it to him. At some stage he changed herd and would have had to have been inspected for his stallion passing. Then, each year he would have been driven down with his mares for the next lot of foals to be taken away. At some stage he was DNA tested and I don't suppose he stood quietly for that!
Every time you act like a predator, a wild pony has no choice but to act like prey.... it seems absolutely obvious.
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Post by Kelly Marks on Apr 12, 2009 18:33:03 GMT 1
I'm all for starting a campaign to stop this hot branding of our native ponies. I'm not convinced that petitions do any good. Tell me who to write to - Defra? Peta? The people that actually carry this out? (I won't hijack this thread - I'll start another)
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Post by happyhorsehearts on Apr 12, 2009 18:38:22 GMT 1
So sad when we lose our friends, if, as you say, when you are ready you use your experiences to help others to learn, Piper's memory will live on through you and bring you great comfort.
I lost my horse two years ago so I understand your pain. When the grief grows less you will do this horse a great honour I am sure, he was lucky to find you.
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sixfootblonde
Grand Prix Poster
www.western-saddler.co.uk
Posts: 1,138
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Post by sixfootblonde on Apr 12, 2009 18:42:37 GMT 1
Sarah - so sorry to read this. RIP little chap - what a lucky little chap he was.
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Post by arizona on Apr 12, 2009 19:54:00 GMT 1
So sorry to hear of your loss - he was very lucky to find you .
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Post by donnalex on Apr 12, 2009 20:16:29 GMT 1
I'm all for starting a campaign to stop this hot branding of our native ponies. I'm not convinced that petitions do any good. Tell me who to write to - Defra? Peta? The people that actually carry this out? (I won't hijack this thread - I'll start another) Start with the BHS, then the Exmoor Pony Society and The New Forest Pony Society. Next then Andalusian Society in England. Contact the veterinary association, they were instumental in the puppy docking ban. The Andalusians are routinely done and are being done in this country without anaesthetic or any after care or even an experienced brander. I know someone who is naffed off that the foal moved and smudged the brand, she now knows to make sure it is tied up tighter and twitched for this years foals session. You do not need to even have any formal training to do it. Many breeders are doing them when the farrier is present using the farriers forge. The farrier makes the individual brands. I know this as fact. At the very least all animals should be fully sedated for the procedure and provided with about five days pain killers. Some of the better breeders do get the vet to sedate them. Vets routinely carry out caesarians on cows and give no pain relief for afterwards and bare minimum during the op, to keep the costs down for the farmers. If the farmers had to pay the going rate for vet treatment for this sort of thing, cows would never have got to the stage where they cant give birth naturally.
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Post by donnalex on Apr 12, 2009 20:20:28 GMT 1
And while you are at it Kelly, get on to the Fell Pony Society and stop them cutting a 'key bit' out of their ears for identification purposes. This is a pair of plier/hole punch type tool that cuts a v shape out of the ears of the ponies. Each breeder has his own place, left or right ear, inside or outside edge. All done in the cruellest way by a big man on a young unhandled pony and no pain killers or after care. Good luck!
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Post by SarahW on Apr 12, 2009 20:56:29 GMT 1
Ear cutting and tagging happens on Dartmoor and Bodmin moor too.
People who buy semi-feral foals have no idea this sort of thing has happened to their foals - along with tying them up to something solid - then they wonder why they can't get near them when they get them home. In the meantime, the commoners and farmers who breed these ponies think we are all mad for thinking it matters. It's "traditional" and it works they would say.
Please encourage people to buy "No Fear, No Force" my book on how to train the unhandled and semi-feral foal so that we can get the word around that there is another way. Needless to say, I have added a tribute for my darling Piper. I should add that I have had to tone down my chapter on from moor to door - I don't want to alienate people so I have just stated the facts as I see them and people can decide for themselves.
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Post by mandal on Apr 12, 2009 21:25:45 GMT 1
Donnalex and Sarah, I'm horrified!!! It is worse than I in my ignorance of feral horses and ponies knew.
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Post by donnalex on Apr 12, 2009 21:41:02 GMT 1
Mandal - its the tip of the iceberg what we know of. Some of the breeders are really proud of how hard their ponies are, how they can take it and how they dont need any feed or healthcare. Its ten years old and never had a foot lifted. The only time they see men they are sure something nasty is in store for them. Chopping pieces out of their ears is not going to make them good to bridle is it? The Fell judges like to see a notch out of their ear, it means they are proper Fells and they can be sure they are a registered pony and not just a nice type so they can place it well knowing they wont look a plonker. Because of this the people who buy to show actually choose to buy from breeders who still do it in some cases, so encourage it even more. I bought a mare that was still sucking her mother at three, was in foal herself, had a notch cut out of both ears and wondered why she was not easy. The Fells are taught to lead on a cow halter or Yorkshire halter (so a pressure halter then) at the back of a tractor. Doh! Well they teach you how to pussy foot round the tricky ones I suppose!
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Post by SarahW on Apr 12, 2009 21:52:33 GMT 1
I had two Fell ponies that came in for starting. One was really really easy, the other that had been ear-tagged er...wasn't. Both beautiful. They belonged to alovely lady that used to come on here and were a very obvious example of the differences between an unhandled and a manhandled.
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