cuffey
Olympic Poster
Posts: 962
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Post by cuffey on Dec 29, 2008 23:34:35 GMT 1
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Post by arabmania on Dec 29, 2008 23:46:10 GMT 1
I think its about time something was taken seriously about the use of a bit especially in BD. Surely if you have a horse that carries himself and is responsive to his rider without the use of a bit then that is better?! This is one campaign that i know full well my daughter is heavily involved in
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Post by donnalex on Dec 30, 2008 11:01:41 GMT 1
If bitless bridles are allowed into competition the non competitive spirit/welfare aspects of using one will be lost. One day there will be someone punished by whatever body governs the sport for a rider using performance enhancing add ons to the bridle such as spikes under the leather, barbed wire rope, whatever, but the whole ethos of bitless/freedom will go to a new low. This is why bandages and boots are not allowed into the dressage competition arena. Someone would have boots that either weight the legs or worse still stab the legs for not moving unnaturally.
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 30, 2008 11:17:13 GMT 1
I think boots and bandages are not allowed in dressage as they can give the impression of exaggarating the horses movement, ie a 'trick of the eye' and give an unfair advantage. Not anything more sinister!!
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gixer
Olympic Poster
My lil dressage superstar
Posts: 916
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Post by gixer on Dec 30, 2008 11:43:52 GMT 1
If bitless bridles are allowed into competition the non competitive spirit/welfare aspects of using one will be lost. Sorry Donna but thats nonsense! in what would would encouraging top competitive riders to train and ride in a kinda bridle be a bad thing?! I'll go sign it, would love to see top level dreassage ridden bitless, if there are folks that can manage that level with a neck strap then surelss bitless would be easy!
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Post by arabheaven on Dec 30, 2008 11:58:52 GMT 1
This is my one grudge!!! Zac schools LOVELY in is bitless bridle but for the sake of competition has to wea a bit. He schools perfectly well in is myler snaffle, the kindest and most sensitive of bits in my opinion, but it annoys me that BD won't allow bitless. We are lucky that we have Wessex Classical Riding group which run competitions that allow bitless and you earn extra points for sensitive riding and less tack. I question competitors as to whether they would begrudge me riding bitless and no one has ever said they would mind. Surely if my horse is responsive and in self carriage without the need of a bit that is much better evidence of correct schooling??
I understand the whole BD rules state the horse must be soft and responsive to the contact but why does this have to involve a bit?!!
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 30, 2008 12:49:15 GMT 1
Maybe the way forward is to enter competitions bitless and let the judges know. Forgotten the term but you get marked but not placed if you know what I mean. This would help the judges see the advantages/standard you can get to bitless and would no doubt further the cause. I know this helped alot in allowing nose nets to be used. Education is the key..
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Post by arabheaven on Dec 30, 2008 13:06:20 GMT 1
you can compete HC if you are bitless (hors concours or something) which means you get marked but not allowed to be placed but why shouldn't you be placed. it is ridiculous.
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gixer
Olympic Poster
My lil dressage superstar
Posts: 916
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Post by gixer on Dec 30, 2008 13:36:52 GMT 1
how gutted would you be to ride a test score enough to be placed but not get the recognition as you choose to be kinder on your horses mouth by using a bitless bridle? surely accepting contact on nose/ poll is as good as accepting contact in the mouth?
*wonders about the micklem bridle.... could you get away with having the bit fitted but riding off the bitless set up of the bridle?!
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Post by horsey123 on Dec 30, 2008 17:47:26 GMT 1
i wish i could use my pelham in dressage jimmy goes lovely into it and we hardly use the curb(not like some of the double bridle users) but he hates snaffles
i think it would be great to use a bitless as jimmy also goes lovely off it
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 30, 2008 18:05:40 GMT 1
if we do hors conurs enough times . ........... and more importanly be seen by the right people when getting scores good enough to beat people already respected in a particular type of event .............. then the powers that be will not be able to ignore anyone that wants to comepete bitless. One of the problems however with dressage is that it is rather subjective and reliant on a judges opinion ...... if that judge is not open to the possibility that a horse can perform properly without a bit then they will not "see" " fairly" and without prejudice. Like I found with the driving ... you have to be in the right place at the right time and meet the right people ... and sometimes thats just luck! . Plus there are just some things that are not subjective ... the time to go safely through an obstacle or get through cones without knocking them down ... getting past scary objects or not , doing a circle one handed or not ( well the style is a little subjective ) There are some spectacular horses ridden bitless out there ...... but as I think has been hinted at ...... many people who do it are just not into competitive riding / dressage. Those who are competitive tend to adhere to the rules .. or go classical I suppose
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colin
Advanced Poster
Posts: 389
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Post by colin on Dec 30, 2008 18:10:12 GMT 1
I dont do comps, I will never do comps-partly because with my Icelandics I would not have been allowed to compete under Icelandic Horse Society GB rules beause my Icelandics did not have shoes on their back hoofs- as recommended by an excellent farrier- so god knows how they would react to them now not only shoeless but also in a bitless bridle!
I will sign the petition, and having rode both my horses-one for over a year bitless feel it should not make a difference.
As far as Icelandic shows go it not bit less bridles that need to be banned but the harsh bits and weighted boots used by some to make the horse 'tolt' better.
I do not have any objection to bits, and agree with GaWaiN pony boys view that some horses are better in the bit, and some bitless. The Native Americans did rather show them selves to be good riders!
best wishes
Colin
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natalia
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,103
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Post by natalia on Dec 30, 2008 23:05:42 GMT 1
Personally i don't think bitless should be allowed for BD as it gives a rtaher unlevel playing field, and a lot of bitless bridles are very strong, much more so than a snaffle, and for the sake of the image of the sport I would be mortified if anyone turned up in a dually expecting to ado a test, it would look awful, after all, i plait and make sure my tack is spotless for BD, why should be allowed to look so scruffy? A hackamore is a very strong bit and yes, lots of horses do work round in it because of the poll pressure, and there are many types, most are quite severe. I think the majority of bitless bridles work on poll/jaw pressure and lets remember that your not allowed to use anyhting other than a snaffle (minimum poll pressure as far as bits go) and a caverson with a flash or drop, no grackles or nosebands that have any more pressure ie kinerton that involve steering.
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Post by bramblesmum on Dec 30, 2008 23:22:41 GMT 1
I actually agree with Natalia, my pony reacts a lot more sharply in a Dr Cook or Dually than she does in her snaffle or french link, she is happiest in a pelham, the one that takes the most work is the snaffle as there is nothing there to encourage her at all to work into the bridle where I have found both bitless bridles I have to be quite severe (although perfect at pressure release etc)
I also don't think a bitless bridle is kinder as any bridle bitted or not can be severely used if handled heavily.
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Dec 30, 2008 23:53:57 GMT 1
while I agree that a hackamore with its leverage can indeed be very severe.......... and that rope halters concentrate pressure far too harshly if pulled sharply ........... I dont think that the majority of biltess bridles place nearly as much pressure on a horse as a piece of metal on the extremely sensitive tongue. Of course if a horse just does not like nose pressure per se then it will react more to a bb making it appear more severe to that horse ! The pressure with most bbs is dissapated over a wider area and it is actually rather hard to get poll pressure on a dr cooks for example.. However................ even if we agree to disagree about the relative kindness / severity of bits / bitless bridles ........ imo if a horse needs that amount of pressure to get the movements required it should NOT be taking part in a competitive dressage where the aim is for soft, light responses.... if I was not getting that then I would not be taking part ! or if thats NOT what dressage is about in everyday life then ..... well .... glad I am not part of the "normal" dressage scene. as for looking scruffy ...... omg I hope kelly does not see your remark, calling the dually scruffy and in principle although it is part of the process to "look smart" ...... it should not matter what the turnout looks like , if it floats effortlessly round the arena performing all the movements smoothly with light aids .... then it wins !!!!
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