A slightly odd problem, I'm not sure how to tackle

[Trouble]

Well, my horse can be a bit, quirky (read that as Devil Horse!) sometimes...one day he is adorable, easy, willing, the next he is crabby and grouchy and naps/rears/bucks (at gallop, at speed in todays case!)

For example, yesterday me and 2 others went for a long ride, was brilliant, cantering verges and jumping ditches...he was a star (new hacking route as well) today went out on a different route but with same 2 people but we had to walk the wjole thing as he was backing and generally being a bit dangerous.

This is a good example of how he always is, and can change so easily.

Always wondered what the cause was, and I've come to discover a pattern....the days he's grouchy and a sh*t, he gets back and is desperate for a wee...but won't go with his saddle on!!

Lol...so wwhat on earth can i do about this? When he's good he is SO good, but the rest of the time he is awful...and if it's down to something as silly as needing a wee, surely there is something I can do? I always make sure he gets time to stand in his stable before I ride so he gets a chance to go!!

Any ideas? Is it possible to teach a horse to wee with a saddle on?

[mags]

Thats an interesting one, you know Dan wont wee with a rider on. He always wait till he is back in the fied then have a rather desperate one.Mind you think id through my toys out the pram if I had to wait a couple of hours for a wee.

Could you train him to go to a wistle in the stable and then take that to when the saddle is on

[wabuska]

Could he simply be anticipating a lot of fast riding when out in company?

[Suz]

My boy won't wee with me on board either! he likes to stand on tiptoes behind when he goes and I think he feels he can't balance with me there too. Could there be some pain issue meaning he finds weeing with a rider painful, or even having a full bladder painful?

[stybba]

This may sound bonkers, but you could try clicker training. Geldings often let their 'undercarriage' drop while clicker training, and this may allow him to relax enough to have a wee.

[Trouble]

I've never ever tried clicker training so wouldn't even know where to start (that's a big invitation for people to offer some starting tips lol!)

I don't think he's anticipating a fast ride as I've never allowed him to be ridden like that, even our fast work is done in a schooling way at the moment, at his age I won;t allow him to blast around as I think it creates problems later. He gets a good gallop, but we go through trot and canter first etc..

I'm not sure if he finds it painful to wee, I guess I need to investigate that if it becomes more of a problem.

I dunno, it's not like it happens daily, but it does happen more at weekends where I'm riding him earlier! Though saying that it has happened of an evening as well!

[gixer]

RS i had Rio at to start with have a gelding who wont wee on a hard surface (even a stable with a straw bed) or with a rider on and he used to beggar off at speed when he was mounted up and this was only solved once they reasiled he was crossing his legs poor thing! they now have to walk him into the school where he will then have a pee before he's used for a lesson.

[mags]

Could you test the theory by riding him when he has been out in the field and had a wee. Mind you, Izzie was extremely difficlut to ride straight out of the box. I used to make sure id ridden when she had been in the field

[Furiey]

Training him to wee on command sounds the best bet, then you could ask him to wee before you get saddled up.

On the contrary I had a gelding who pretended he wanted to wee as a form of napping. He'd worked out we let him stop to wee and did it whenever he didn't want to do something. It was really frustrating as we didn't want to stop him weeing if he really needed to.

[julz]

Maybe he has a problem with his kidneys or bladder.. when it's fullish it becomes sore, so where the saddle sits, and riders weight, will make it uncomfortable for him...

Start trying to encourage him to wee before you tack up... not sure how'd you go about it though! or untack him wherever you be and let him go.....

[cbc]

Lol Furiey, that was a favourite trick of a riding school horse I used to know.

[pd]

Dec 23, 2008 10:52:22 GMT 1 julz said:

Maybe he has a problem with his kidneys or bladder..

That's my vote, but I'm surprised that no one else has told you to ask your vet about this yet? Kidney stones are painful for horses and more common in geldings than mares. I would get this investigated early in the new year to put your mind at rest. They can do a urine test to see if there are any particles in it which suggest a stone, if its large they can feel them by renal examination.

What ever it is he's asking you to notice and help him as best he can, please don't ignore him.

[Trouble]

Actually, pd, funny you should say you're surprised no one has suggested that as if I'm honest, that was what I was thinking before I posted. It's one of thse things where I was considering talking to my vet, but wasn't sure if I was being an overprotective owner about it. By posting I was hoping to get a few people saying a definite yes or no to a vet (but didn't want to mention the vet as there is nothing visibly wrong with him and it would have misled what I was trying to describe - if that makes sense?)

But yes I agree with you RE kidneys, and that was what i was thinking. Another thing I didn't want to add at the start was that he has started kicking up at my leg again - sometimes, not always, when i ask him to go forwards.

Some days he responds beautifully to my leg, other days he'll close down and kick up his back legs at me - sometimes he'll start a session like that but then start to respond nicely again.

I'm as certain as anyone ever can be that he has no back or tack problems. My dentist is going to come out early in the new year, even though it is only 4 months since he was last done i want to make sure nothing is adding to a problem (if he's unhappy in his mouth it could be a tension/or even stomach/food not getting chewed right thing)

This is def linked to him and his not wanting to wee under saddle, but like you I have been wondering if there's more to it than meets the eye.

But at the same time was wary about lookig for something in nothing and obsessing and 'creating' problems where there are none.

I think I'll go to my original plan of calling my vet and talking through his quirks and this problem with her, see what she says. If she thinks it's worth a visit and a blood test/examination then I'll do that - and cancel dentist so vet can do it all at the same time, no point in paying 2 callout fees!!!

Thanks pd, you have helped me make up my mind, as good as everyone's advice has been, and I'll try everything suggested, none of it has quite rung true yet, but pd you are thinking along the same lines I was.

I remember when I had Dan, he had a really really low grade colic which was making him ever so grumpy! Vet had to sit and observe him for almost an hour before she could get any clues from him about what was the matter! So I'm a big believer in underlying 'things'.

Cheers guys!

[pd]

Nice one, you sound like an intuitive owner, lucky horse! Our instincts are usually right, and this is niggling at your instincts isn't it? Urine test is the key to finding out whether it is this, I hope you're handy with a bucket
I hope your vet helps you both out. All the best.

[Trouble]

Oh god I'd not thought of that! I've already been hanging around with a bucket to try and catch him weeing to start trying to train him to do it in a bucket, but haven't seen him go yet!!!

I try to be intuitive, difficult sometimes with a horse who throws his small country sized attitude in my face twice daily, the genuine things sometimes get lost amidst the tantrums and baby strops! But I do try.

But yes this one was niggling at me - main reason why i tried to make no reference to vets/problems in my initial posts - wanted someone else to think it without me putting the idea there first!!!