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Post by taklishim on Dec 17, 2008 18:57:20 GMT 1
Taklishim, the idea of the carpet is class my husband already thinks I'm mad when it comes to my horses and when he sees what I'm about to do! I can only smile. But if it helps I will give it a go.
this is a really serious idea Jen. I had to do it for several months with a problem horse. . A tip, however is to choose your carpet carefully. Not all yards look good in pink ;D
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Post by mandal on Dec 17, 2008 19:46:00 GMT 1
Metabolic disorders are conditions where metabolism (using foods/chemiacls) has gone wrong such as Cushings and Insulin Resistance. Jackie JA Taylor who is an expert on here runs a group pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse/I believe there is a UKNHCP student in N.Ireland but can't remember her name so if you contact Sarah Braithwaite from this link she will put you right on this and whether the student is competant. www.uknhcp.org/ukpractitioners.htmlThis is a great link for info too. www.hoofrehab.com/I'd definitely stop any molassed feed and the carrots I'm afraid! Speedibeet is beet with the sugars removed so is good for bulk and to take any supplements. Introduce it gradually if you use it as I've found it can have a laxative effect on some horses. ;D Being nosey...Is you farrier Mr Hoof Sculpture??
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Post by Karon on Dec 17, 2008 19:54:50 GMT 1
LGL = low grade laminitis, usually seen, at least with mine, as slightly footy, not striding out, perhaps feeling stones more than usual, not feeling as if they're quite going right under saddle. My first horse had what I think was LGL when she had Cushings, it took a chiropractor to diagnose it in the end as a vet thought she'd hurt her back.
For feed, just in case, speedibeet, Alfa beet, Alfa A Lite, Happy Hoof, D&H Safe and Sound are all good but I'm not sure which ones you are able to get hold of there? If you can't get unmolassed beet you can wash it after soaking. It's worth stopping molasses and carrots, at the least, I would think.
I don't suppose you have any hoof photos for us hoof geeks?!
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Post by mandal on Dec 17, 2008 20:07:59 GMT 1
Can I ask a stupid question? You all use different terms for some horse stuff I don't recognize... is "LGL" low grade laminitis? I haven't heard "LGL" before, over here its chronic or acute founder. We all speak English, but us horsey people are weird!!! Yep you worked it out! ;D I believe over there laminitis is sometimes called 'fescue foot' is that correct?
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Post by june on Dec 17, 2008 21:16:49 GMT 1
LGL is sometimes referred to as sub clinical laminitis by vets rather than low grade laminitis.
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Post by kristine on Dec 18, 2008 2:33:18 GMT 1
Can I ask a stupid question? You all use different terms for some horse stuff I don't recognize... is "LGL" low grade laminitis? I haven't heard "LGL" before, over here its chronic or acute founder. We all speak English, but us horsey people are weird!!! Yep you worked it out! ;D I believe over there laminitis is sometimes called 'fescue foot' is that correct? Pretty much chronic or acute founder... sometimes grass fever - not to be confused with grass tetany. I've never heard of it called 'fescue foot' but I don't know everything.. We don't call them footy... call them gimpy though.
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sundance
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Post by sundance on Dec 18, 2008 8:54:47 GMT 1
It sounds like the quality of hoof has been badly compromised by the disease process you mention, i.e. immune problems. So without shoes he will initially feel very tender, most good farriers, and I know from personal experience there are lots of ignorant ones out there, will not remove any more sole than is absolutely neccessary if they know they are not going to fit a shoe. I would do everything you can to improve the hoof with diet, accepting that this is a long term approach. So, no mollasses or starch, plenty of fibre such as unmollassed alfalfa or simple systems lucie nuts and unmollassed sugarbeet, only poor quality grass and hay (soaked) and supplements such as seaweed and magnesium. Use boots to encourage him to move and I am sure he will gradually be able to cope with walking across the concrete and into the field. Please contact a trimmer for support but try to keep your farrier on board as well. Good luck!
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Post by easyaspie on Dec 18, 2008 12:19:33 GMT 1
Hi Guys
The UKNHCP Student in Northern Ireland is Betsy Lamberton. Although she didn't want to take on any paying clients until she had qualfied.
I do go out to NI once a quarter usually as I have some lovely clients there and trim about 20 horses over 3 days. If you want to PM me I would be more than happy to call and see you next time I am over.
Alternatively, PM me and I can try and put you in touch with Betsy and some of my other clients as having likeminded, knowledgeable people to just talk things through and help with suggestions and a plan for a way forward is always a such an asset.
Sometimes it's just so confusing to read all the replies here and make a conditioning and rehab plan when the list you've got of possible problems is soooo big.
However, as a qualified BF trimmer my first suggestion would be to keep him as comfortable as you possibly can with boots and pads ( you can buy second hand pairs and I can put you in touch with some people who may have some so will make the expense much more manageable) and try to keep him moving as much as possible . If he has runny poo, I'd try a pro-biotic for a while to settle his stomach down and feed, high fibere, low energy feeds, such as speedibeet, pure lucerne and a good all round broad spectrum and multi vitamin supplement (Simple Systems is good) or I quite like the Equmins Hoof Mender Powder (not the pellet form though). Healing mostly comes from within I feel together with good management and a sound rehab plan.
Good luck and really well done to you for taking on a horse who sounds like he's so compromised at the moment.
Jo
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Post by maggie555 on Dec 18, 2008 17:59:23 GMT 1
Hello Jennik, I got my horse in August, and he's been transitioning to barefoot since then. So I know a bit what you might be going through. I was lucky though, and my boy had very good hooves right from the start. Still, he was *very* footy initially. We have gravel on hard packed ground between the field and the yard, and the first few days he'd simply refuse to leave the soft field, then he'd only walk on the grassy verges. And it wasn't a question of taking off too much hoof. So, having said that: it takes a while for a horse to grow a new hoof. Many formerly shod horses have hoof structures that are initially not up to going barefoot on tough surfaces, such as flared walls and weak white line connection, under run heels, weak frogs and lack of concavity of the hoof. It simply takes a while to grow a stronger hoof. So my first advice would be: take your time. I know this is hard, and I myself am not very patient. If you want to learn more about barefoot, try the yahoo list barefoothorsecare. If you think your horse might have metabolic issues that contribute to footiness, check out the equinecushings yahoo list. Tons of information there... Maybe you can read up enough to make an educated decision about whether or not you think your farrier is doing a good job with his trim. It is normal for a newly barefoot horse to be footy. But if your horse does worse after each new trim, I'd get suspicious. A new trim should never make the horse sore. A last comment on boots: I've been riding in front in back boots for about 3 months. Then one day on a long ride, the boots came off, I didn't have extras and continued to ride without. The ground was soft, my horse was fine, and since then, I haven't needed the boots in the back anymore. I'm still booting up in front though. When making a decision about whether to boot or not, or whether to ride at all or not, make sure your horse is comfortable to land heel first at anything faster than a walk. Use boots if needed. I wouldn't turn out the horse in boots though. If you want to progress, you need to challenge the feet a bit at a time. BTW, do you have small stones/gravel on the concrete on the way to your school? Bare concrete is actually not as hard on the horse as small stones on solid ground. Maybe just sweeping the way might help? Easier than rolling out a carpet...
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jennik
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Post by jennik on Dec 18, 2008 19:12:42 GMT 1
Thanks everybody for all the good advice its very kind of yous to take the time and replay, there is so much help here and theres lots of things for me to try over the holidays.I wasnt laughing at he idea for the carpet I was just remembering years ago when my daughter had a pony that was always depressed in the winter I painted his stable a bright green to make it brighter for him and thought when I tell my husband I'm putting carpet in the yard he'll think I've lost the plot. But I found rolls of rubber in the garage and thats where I've been most of the day putting it down and cutting some of it for the front of his stable. I'm not working tomorrow so I'll price boots, but I think the worst thing I've been doing is feeding him carrots, I feed them by the ton. I remember reading years ago that horses needed the carrotine in the winter so I feed a half hundred weight in about a week to three horses ( thought if I put the three horses in it wouldnt sound to bad). I will have a good look at what I feed as Ive already said Ive just been told my ID has navicular so I've had to look at how much I was feeding him but bailey because he's been so thin and sick I 've been giving him loads.
Thanks again x
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Post by june on Dec 18, 2008 20:16:17 GMT 1
There is some evidence that taking a navicular horse barefoot can help the bone remodel. One of ours was diagnosed with navicular at 13. The X-rays showed some bony changes. We changed farriers and put her in Natural Balance shoes for a while which fixed the problem and then took her barefoot. She's 22 now and still sound, apart from one little set back when the feed we were using made her footy.
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Post by Karon on Dec 19, 2008 10:33:56 GMT 1
They definitely don't need carrots, you're best off feeding unmolassed feeds and you can put as much of that into him as he'll eat
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jennik
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Post by jennik on Dec 19, 2008 21:11:10 GMT 1
Thanks June, I'd love to try Mac barefoot but when things didnt work out well with bailey I'm a little worried about taking Macs shoes off. hes 13, when I got him he was a grade A show jumper but Im to frightened to jump Karon I think their food is going to change and the amount I feed, its a love thing I feed to much because I dont want them to be hungry so I think I over feed
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Post by moongirl on Dec 22, 2008 13:32:45 GMT 1
Sorry, I have only just seen this thread. There is a AEP practitioner in Co. Armagh, NI - not sure if she is qualified, but she is very helpful, even if you just send her an e-mail. I came across her when I was looking for a barefoot trimmer, but unfortuneately I live too far away in Tipperary ! www.freewebs.com/intouchequestrian/appliedequinepodiatry.htm Hope this helps
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