laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Oct 10, 2007 23:34:46 GMT 1
thanks for the vids heather .......... who says cobs cant do it will this help re spanish walk ;D I know her head is still "out front" but comments re how this would go towards self carriage ? picture quality not great as video at a distance and in bright sunlight !!!!!!!!!! we had just been doing a few circles in trot. i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/tazzle22/trotroundpole.jpg[/IMG]mmmmmmm more to this reply shows on typing but not on the post another pic ...... try again so beg pardon of identicals turn up
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Post by heather on Oct 10, 2007 23:43:52 GMT 1
Not in self carriage Laura, but she has a very good trot by the look of it.
Oooh, I'd like to get my hands on her- that is one very nice little mare. Would have her turned into a little Baroque horse, in no time. She has plenty of ability by the look of it. Whats the canter like? Any pics?
Heather
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Post by sarahfox on Oct 10, 2007 23:45:43 GMT 1
Heather, I totally agree re the true german way,richard watjen was a beautifully light rider.I did some training with Erik Herbermann many moons ago and he also teaches lightness and self carriage.I wasnt aware that Emile had been trained that way as I didnt catch up with him until about 10 years ago,by which time he was very much the fiddler/spurrer that he tends towards today,I have to say that I was very disappointed to see him as I had been intending to train with him after hearing what a lovely gentle rider he was,pretty much turned me against competition dressage tbh. The point I was making earlier was realy in reference to what somebody else posted about the germans kicking the back end up to the reins and holding it there,as I felt that if anybody were to try that it might not be a good plan! Not that fiddling and spurring is a great plan either imo,but probably preferable and certainly works better to acheive PRETEND self carriage than simply kicking and holding.
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Oct 11, 2007 0:02:05 GMT 1
thanks heather ;D ;D ;D I like her too .... didnt think in self carriage but we are working on us both !!!! no canter pics ........ we have not cantered in a long time partly because I lost my confidence due to a bad fall where horse had a stroke and died .... we have driven for several years rather than ridden and am just getting back into it ... working on getting a smooth canter from the ground first .. .... if I lived nearer devon I'd be down there like a shot ...... but if you are ever herefordshire way you are welcome to have a go!! turning the bum trying to do lateral work ! she usually has her head lower I really need the lessons ;D ;D ;D phew
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Post by jen1 on Oct 11, 2007 0:13:52 GMT 1
Cokey I think you are over reacting ever so slightly. I am not put off showing my riding pics and I lean forwards too much and my lower leg slips back, my back is too hollow sticking out my tum and as Jen1 says I need to put my boobs on full beam!!! This is not an amateur forum at all, it is an open forum for anyone interested. I am very interested to hear the view points of better riders than myself and to see pictures to illustrate what is being said, after all pictures say it all so much more easily. If it helps I will put up a recent pic of my boy to be criticised! ya got some then ;)lol dona the truth is your a very good rider aand there not an awful lot i could have past onto you other than the kinathetic of what you were doing, i just thought you needed tweaking, here and there, ya good ole nag woman you ;D
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Post by wisconsinkate on Oct 11, 2007 2:53:06 GMT 1
Sitting here in the USofA with my glass of wine I just read this entire 5 page thread and found it incredibly interesting. I just got back into riding after around 15 years out of the saddle. I bought a welsh cob and spent the first year riding out on the trails and fox hunting and have only really started "proper" schooling in the last year. I had a very bad experience with a Grand Prix Dressage trainer - I have to admit to having 6 months of training before my gut finally said "this isn't fun!!" and so we stopped and I have started to read more and try and understand what I as a rider am doing and how I should be helping my pony. But I really don't understand all the concepts of German vs French and Classical Dressage right now.
After 6 months of asking this trainer questions like "but he feels really heavy in my hands and my arms ache - its like he's leaning on the bit and not accepting it all" and being told "Yes but he has to learn where to put his head and hold himself in his own self carriage" and then me asking "but maybe he's not developed the muscle to do this yet and its just too hard for him?" and then being told "No, you are too soft and he's getting away with being naughty, he's fine - this is how horses learn!!!" I decided enough was enough. I thought that since she rode at such a high level she would know what she was doing but I guess I was wrong.
I have since spent the last few months trying to ask him to stretch his neck to ride low and long as he simply had become really resentful of the bit. I have been reading the Mary W stuff and Sylvia Loch which have helped me at least get him to a point now where he isn't afraid to seek contact again. But there is a lot to think about when sitting up there. I think it is hard to work on your own but am starting to see results and can now work at a nice walk with him relaxed at the jaw. Oddly enough he is happier to work with me on the trails and gets very bored in the school very quickly.
Someone mentioned on here earlier (sorry not sure who) that some riders have a tendency to keep asking the same thing over and over in the hope that horse will learn his lesson through repetition and that in doing it wrong you are teaching him something else. I think I am a big candidate for that and so have realized that although some of the moves like walk to canter transitions are quite advanced for us it helps keep his mind active as he simply becomes bored at me asking him to walk long and low.
Heather, I've really enjoyed the photos and what you've had to say and feel quite inspired by Ketchup!!!
I think the one thing I have learned from what I've been reading about self carriage is really about helping the horse develop the muscles so that his back is strong and that he can round himself and carry you in balance. Once he is strong enough it apparently should come quite easily ??
Cokey - the photo of you riding your horse is beautiful and I think that it seems more like the definition of self carriage can be blurred depending on what you are trying to achieve with your horse.
Off to get a top up!
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laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
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Post by laura on Oct 11, 2007 8:15:18 GMT 1
wkate ...... sounds like our journeys kinda similar .......maybe we can travel a while on the same trail and learn a few things from different people along the way I am having lesson soon with a centred riding trainer and looking at other possibilities too .... dip a toe in a few ponds and see where Taz and I happy to learn to become soft, balanced and effective for what we want to do...
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Post by Donnalex on Oct 11, 2007 8:46:22 GMT 1
Hi Jen Ive only got one from a show taken recently, will get hubby to scan it in tonight and post it then.
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 9:37:57 GMT 1
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr, had just written a lengthy post for Laura and wisconsinkate, when my windows updated, shut down, and I lost the whole b*****y lot. Will try to find time to write it all again later.
Heather
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Post by Louise C on Oct 11, 2007 9:45:38 GMT 1
My major goal for next year is to have a course with you Heather - I love to see your piccies - and you were really nice about the piccy I showed you at Keysoe of Flynn and I out having fun on an Endurance ride - you obviously realise we don't all have to be top class riders to go out and have fun. But to have a willingness to learn is a good starting point.
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 9:58:39 GMT 1
Thanks Louise, It is purely because of the willingness of members here to learn, in general!- that I take the time to post. Nice to know I dont intimidate everyone! Heather
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cokey
Grand Prix Poster
My babies
Posts: 2,224
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Post by cokey on Oct 11, 2007 10:28:57 GMT 1
Oh for goodness sake, Heather - you clearly don't intimidate me otherwise why would I keep responding to you.... I was talking in general terms as I am aware that there are a LOT of people who keep out of discussions such as these as they know that their "amateur" advice would be pooh poohed by a certain group of individuals that frequent this forum.
And for you to intimate that I am unwilling to learn is insulting in the extreme. I am incredibly willing to learn, but can you possibly accept that I choose not to learn from you? I have chosen my preferred teachers and they suit me very well at this point in my journey. When I have built the "cake" that they specialise in - the foundation work, if you will - I will then choose who I wish to teach me the "icing". And from your attitude to anybody who doesn't agree with your way, I can see that it's highly unlikely to be you.
I see that you also are unhappy with the teaching concepts behind RWYM - does that mean that you also think that Mary Wanless is a lesser rider than you? Clearly you think that LP is a poor rider, but frankly, out of the three of you - MW, LP and yourself - I'd prefer to look like LP on a horse... That's not an insult to you, btw, just before people jump on me, it's a choice that *I* have made.
I'm sure that there ARE people on this forum who are very happy to have your advice, but there are also people on this forum who see that you didn't just give your expert advice, you actually did it by comparing yourself favourably to an enthusiastic amateur. Which in my book, is incredibly unfair....
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Post by jennyb on Oct 11, 2007 10:39:18 GMT 1
Ouch Cokey.... I'm glad I'm not Heather! FWIW, I like the pic of your mare. I also like Heather's pics too. I just see different schooling "goals" from the pics, which is fine. If we all wanted the same thing out of life with our horses, it would be very dull! I don't see anyone on here dismissing anyone else, or condescending them, in any way on this thread. Let's all be nice
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 10:40:03 GMT 1
Dearie me, I do get to you Cokey, dont I?!!! ;D I purely posted those photos of myself, because that was all I had to hand!! If I had time, I would have scoured the internet to find suitable photos, so as not to appear to be self publicising!! But, I havent such time. Laura has happily posted photos of herself as an ' enthusiastic amateur' and I will get back to her with some help once I get more time, later on!, having had the post eaten by my PC earlier this morning! Laura doesnt seem intimidated by my photos! I am not 'unhappy with RWYM concepts'- whatever helps you as a rider!! I just cannot get my head round the concept of 'bearing DOWN' enabling the rider to 'suck UP', and would love to actually see someone practising it in person to understand it better. I am not the closed minded individual you see me to be! But as for LP's advice to round the back out as it is better for your back, and allows more flexibility, you should hear what a chiropractor friend has to say about that piece of wisdom!! RWYM is looking to achieve the same ends as EE, but the advice given by LP is the complete opposite to classical teaching, and yes, I do have an issue with that! Heather
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Post by heather on Oct 11, 2007 10:46:09 GMT 1
And PS, for those of you who havent had a look at it yet, see the thread I have put up about inspirational riding in competition dressage. Now THAT's a horse in self carriage!- and with a 63 year old rider who has fought and beaten breast cancer. Wonderful riding, and very happy horse!
Heather
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