|
Post by circusdancer on Mar 15, 2008 0:16:53 GMT 1
I thought about that too Rosemaryhannah and yes I think I would be willing to have them if I were in a position to.
Because I could stab them in the back with a pitch fork at the first opportunity and bury them in the muck heap. ;D Oh heck, I'm going to get in trouble now aren't I? It was a joke obviously so back to seriousness, yes I would.
I'd love to give them an opportunity to realise what sensitive animals horses are and how even the slightest error can impact on it forever and also, as madmare pointed out, just what they can do to help people. I have seriously given that some thought - would I really be prepared to expose my precious ponies to people that have committed such atrocities? I've contradicted myself already haven't I? I said it wasn't about education because "to kill or not to kill" is a basic human principle which still stands but my mind is in overdrive and I'm prepared to accept that non-horsey people need educating about horses.
*I'd just have a pitchfork tied to my belt trailing behind me at all times, it'd be good for desensitising anyway.* Sorry, I'm being flippant again. This is a serious matter that we need to concentrate on without getting too detailed at this stage.
Let's just bounce ideas around for now, establish who is doing what before it runs away with itself and loses steam.
OK do we drop the petition bit? It seems a fairly pointless exercise from what people have posted and we could channel our energies into another direction.
|
|
madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
|
Post by madmare1 on Mar 15, 2008 0:23:30 GMT 1
they would have to be supervised, and in no direct contact with the clients...but a spell of hard physical labour should prove a point, don't you think? I remember doing my training, and it's HARD work....I had a better six-pack than most Olympic athletes by the time I'd done 6 weeks!
I think that approved centres, with the right support from the Probation service would prove a point...or even in the Police stables....that'd do! Anything to see how they can wreck such trust in humans with one unthinking, idiotic, drink/drug fuelled act.
*Most* of those who do this type of thing have bad home lives, or are plain bored...I know that is no excuse, but I have experienced this myself...I live in a village, and there is NOTHING for the teenagers up here to do, except get drunk and cause trouble...we had a spell of it a few years back, no physical attacks on the horses, but they were being chased with Quad bikes...one mare had her tail cut...and last year, someone cut the tails off the elderly Shetlands we have at the yard...
Like I said, I'm willing and ready to help with whatever I can...the law badly needs updating, and we should be the catalyst for that.
|
|
|
Post by rosemaryhannah on Mar 15, 2008 11:56:35 GMT 1
Yes, that I would agree with - we certainly DO need to up date the law. I'm not sure, for instance, what the relative sentences are for damaging property and 'damaging' a horse. Taking and driving away is of course a serious crime, because innocent people get killed by the cars .... We do need to think long and hard about what, exactly, we want. We need to be taken seriously as sober minded people who have a clear plan (not 'stiffer sentences' but 'a minimum sentence of x, in line with' or whatever) and not as a bunch of hysterical women. I think we need to be very clear about the link between deliberate harm to animals and to humans.
And I do agree, MOST who do this will have had inadequate parenting and probably be on drugs. It is not an excuse, but it is how it happens. A close freind works with boys like this, not animal harmers, but kids taken out of school in handcuffs, and they are, most of them, pathetic figures.
The question must be, how to get the kind of justice which helps those whose horses have been killed/damaged, while at the same time, not merely punishing the individuals who do it, but re-training them so that they do NOT go on to cut up some poor child/wife/granny.
|
|
|
Post by luckyrider on Mar 15, 2008 13:01:49 GMT 1
Rosemaryhannah and others are making a lot of sense.
We will all have to put our thinking caps on and consult widely to come up with answers to your questions about what we need to ask for.
If somebody is collating info concerning these crimes, we can seriously strengthen the case for tougher sentencing if we can come up with any judge who has commented (as they sometimes do when handing out sentences) that they would have liked to give a tougher/more effective sentence. Does anybody know about this? If not already said by judges, can the judges who have presided over such trials be approached for their views regarding the sentences allowed by law for these crimes?
Whoever has this data, if agreeable, I will try to approach these judges to see if I can get this. Sometimes you just have to go for it.
|
|
madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
|
Post by madmare1 on Mar 15, 2008 18:36:02 GMT 1
I'll do a search for the judges comments...and a few family friends are Magistrates, who too often are the ones sentencing those found guilty of these crimes.
If we need someone to collate this info..I'll volunteer. Just email it to me, and then I can get it sorted out, and emial a copy to anyone who wants it. My email address is elvenkeeparabians@hotmail.co.uk so if anyone wants to contact me via that, then please do so.
|
|
|
Post by circusdancer on Mar 15, 2008 23:55:13 GMT 1
Right. I'm more sober minded and less hysterical tonight and have been making contact to get information and photos together to push this forward.
Madmare, you're a star and I'll send you as much info as I receive.
|
|
madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
|
Post by madmare1 on Mar 15, 2008 23:56:59 GMT 1
no problem hun...I'm just doing what any reasonable horsey (or even non-horsey) person would do.
|
|
|
Post by luckyrider on Mar 16, 2008 12:06:48 GMT 1
I'll do a search for the judges comments... Fantastic stuff madmare. I used to work at ILPH and still have contacts in their Campaigns and their Communications departments. Somebody talked about getting the welfare organisations involved. If you agree I will approach my ILPH contacts regarding this... but I don't want you to hold your breaths. Things I have sent them in the past have got ground down to nothing by the inevitable red tape.
|
|
madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
|
Post by madmare1 on Mar 16, 2008 14:11:44 GMT 1
Yup...if you have the contacts, then use them! Just ask for a general view, just on the attacks on horses, and what do they think would be a deterrent...stiffer sentencing/education whatever really.
I'll just add here, that ANY info I recieve in conjunction with this (photos, vet's reports etc) will only be used with prior permission...and in agreement on layout/wording being reached by all of us involved. That way, I can't be blamed for anything!
If you want an explanation..please PM me...I'll explain the whole sorry story.
Emma xx
|
|
|
Post by luckyrider on Mar 17, 2008 10:41:39 GMT 1
I will contact them this evening.
|
|
madmare1
Grand Prix Poster
The Gruesome Twosome
Posts: 1,500
|
Post by madmare1 on Mar 17, 2008 19:37:58 GMT 1
Just emailed...re title and logo....hope the suggestion is ok.
|
|
|
Post by crinks on Mar 18, 2008 0:32:36 GMT 1
Hi its me (mad mars long suffering mother!) afer reading al thses messages I am truly appalled about this.
If you need me to do anything, co-ordinating things, research, speech writing lobbying then please ask I will do whatever it takes to help get this off the ground.
MM and me sorted the Countryside Alliance beacons for Lancashire, amidst death threats and arrest threats and helped organise part of the Liberty and Livilhood march as well.
Used to standing arguing with MPS and such like, writing press statements and talking on the radio, and approaching those who could help if they wanted to. Not scared of asking anyone for anything.
As I'm off work at the moment on an enforced holiday then please let me know what I can do to help.
|
|
|
Post by circusdancer on Mar 18, 2008 0:52:05 GMT 1
Great to see you Crinks, we're probably poles apart on the old hunting debate, but it's great that we can live and let live and come together for the sake of horses. It just goes to show that whatever our backgrounds, disciplines, beliefs etc, we are united and passionate about this campaign.
|
|
silversnaffles
Olympic Poster
'We should not be defining, merely deducing'
Posts: 588
|
Post by silversnaffles on Mar 28, 2008 14:28:38 GMT 1
It is a well known fact, from criminologists, psychologists and sociologists that people who carry on to murder humans, started with animals. If you look into every major murder case in the last 20yrs, at least 90% (which were pre-meditated) started on animals first. These thugs will simply ignore the slap on the wrist and commit more atrocities. Time and again this is ignored until something 'major' has happened. I will be sending the letter off to all my local MPs. I agree, shocking and disgusting as they may be, if they're willing to believe that these attacks are not serious and are acceptable let them see the pictures. I'm most definitely in, to help in any way that I can. On another note, concerning and earlier remark that the BHS and RSPCA could have done more. Not knowing the ins and outs of this case I wouldn't know exactly but I can well believe it. The Amersham horses which the RSPCA 'rescued' are lucky to have been found. After many reports to the RSPCA they did nothing...do you know who tipped the press and other organisations off? No not a member of public, and that the RSPCA jumped in, as they love to claim, no it was a member of the 'terrorist' organisation the animal liberation front who tipped everyone off and was responsible for saving all those horses. Left to the RSPCA god knows how many more would've died. x
|
|
MAGNUM
Advanced Poster
Posts: 305
|
Post by MAGNUM on Mar 28, 2008 17:31:45 GMT 1
Now even the B.H.S are jumping on the bandwagon!!!!
Too little too late i feel.
This should not be a way for the b.h.s to up there profile
|
|