winter headshaking

[dione]

I have a gorgeus headshaking cob whom I have owned for over 2 yrs and have tried nearly everything. The thing which seems to make Moby different from other h/s is that he is badly affected by rain/snow/sleet as well as the summer problems. Does anyone else have these problems and how do you cope?

[laylaw]

symptons such as that would suggest nerve related issues rather than allergies. have you had his teeth looked at and back by an oestopath. he may have a trapped nerve. He may also have trigeminal neuralgia which is being linked to a lot headshakers.

With regards to things that may help - any pressure that can be taken off the face will help, ride with no noseband or bit if possible. Also it might be worth investing in a full face mask to cover his face and take the sting out of the rain etc on his face, or giving him a pain killer before riding might help.

I would talk to your vet if you havent done already as there may be things they can do to check.

[Lulu]

You're not alone. My mare headshook quite mildly when a sudden flurry descended upon us as we rode out last winter. That has never happened before (although she does headshake in summer, due to pollen and sandflies)

I now ride her in a Dr Cooks and she is much more settled in her head now. Don't have problems riding in rain, just snow, or summer sun/heat/flies

[annahindley]

Agree totally with laylaw (except I think you should get a chiropractor!!! But osteopaths are great too!), trigeminal neuralgia can be triggered by cold, neck pain can cause head shaking and can be caused by bad teeth, bad tack, bad feet, sounds less likely to be allergic, but may be so - Vet, Teeth, feet, back, saddle...if none of those help, get a 2nd opinion on them all!
What have you tried so far?

[amma]

always buy a browband a size too big. this cured my headshaker even though we all thought her taack was ok.

[dione]

Hi thx for all the replies. I have tried vet, saddler, no bit to different bit. I dont use a noseband do use a large browband, physchio twice who commented on how super flexible Moby is. I have tried different riders, special diets/ homeopathy/herbs/full facenets/nosenet. Moby rarely h/s in field but does when ridden/lunged/longreined/looseschooled and even when led from my old Welsh cob in a headcollar.

He is the most sweetest, safest horse to handle. I have done clicker training with him which he enjoys. But ridden etc he is very unpredictable with all the h/s symptons inc tossing/shaking/snot in my face/ snorting/itching/ flinging front legs/excessive sweating/panic/strong/weariness. This can vary to very mild where i get my hopes up and i can ride on the buckle to sitting on an unexploded bomb. He never bucks/rears just panic and this is mostly with cold rain/sleet or in the summer with heavy vegetation/small flies. A full net works a bit in summer as well as clipping head/jaw and bonjela and open/new areas. He is also better in canter and at shows.

I love him dearly and now at the point of feeling cruel riding him. My vet was dismissive (why did I buy a h/s?) and (not much hope if the traditional things ie nosenets dont work). Have emailed Dr Knottenbelt who was very sympathetic and i realise he has got trigeminal nueralgia, and I am waiting on another email from him.

Its just interesting to heasr other peoples stories. I feel l;ike I have 3 options. Move him to another part of the country which is very open countryside. Just let him be a companion if everything else maked him too stressfull or persevere, but like i said i start to feel very cruel. He is just too lovely for that. It is just difficult when sometimes Moby seems to really enjoy his hacks and work and going to shows. The good times give hope to the bad times, but they unfortunately are very very frequent.

Sorry to ramble on. I do read the yahoo h/s website but that can be rather depressing.

[gillmcg]

It must be so disheartening when you've tried everything and nothing seems to work. It does irritate me when people say they have "a headshaker" and all they do is get a bit irritated by the midges! Concer started seasonal headshaking the spring after he came to live with us. Like you I have tried many many things and this year I called in a homeopathic vet (Tim Couzens in Sussex) and the combination he gave me to try did make an enormous difference. I am very lucky in that Conc's is definitely an allergic response to various pollens whereas your lad does sound as if he is suffering from nerve pain/damage. If you do end up having to 'retire' him please don't worry too much about him - as long as he has a stable herd of field companions I'm sure he'll be fine - he doesn't know he's born to win! Perhaps you'll still be able to ride him on 'good days'? I can't imagine what it must be like to have a horse who headshakes in the field as well - torture.

[chrissiew]

My sister's gelding headshakes and was awful summer and winter of 2004. Literally would go nuts if it rained etc. Summer 2005 has been much much better and so far this winter he has been virtually 100%. To be honest we are not sure what has helped, but probably no one thing, but a combination, so here goes :

1. Steady up from Feedmark - he is on this all the time
2. Virtually cereal/sugar free diet
3. Elevator bridle with the releaved poll pressure - we think this was a major turning point.
4. Global herbs Zephyr and Scratch - these worked very well and helped to break the physcological cycle by alleviating the immediate symptoms - he doesn't have these now, but they definitely helped when he was at his worst.
5. Equilibrium nosenet worn pretty much all year round.
6. I've posted this before and people may not agree, but what we found helped as well was being a bit firmer with Chase and not allowing him to rub his nose etc when he had an attack whilst ridden and to keep asking him to work forward and into a contact. To start with he got a bit worse, but then would start to "come down" from the attack and work through it. I liken it to my hayfever attacks - if I give in to it and rub my eyes/nose etc, it gets 100% worse immediately and goes from bad to worse. If I try to ignore it within reason and get on with things, the symptoms do get less. However, by keeping to this rather strict regime, Chase has made an amazing turnaround.

This little horse has gone from being extremely dangerous during an attack ie rearing, plunging badly enough that his rider would have to get off and lead him home, to pretty much not displaying any symptons, even in the height of the season or during heavy rain.

He does sometimes midly headshake during stressful times (ie shows) or at the height of the season, but absolutely nothing like his previous episodes.

As for vets - don't bother, our's was about as useful as a chocolate teapot for this!

[laylaw]

You may want to call a lady called Belinda Murphy. She has worked with my mare, not for headshaking but she specialises in working with headshakers and has often been able to help where others can not.

I cant really tell you what she does as it is a combination of iridology, oestopathy, physio, healing work, deep tissue massage and much more but she is a wonderful person.

She was the only lady who has helped my mare. I am a Bowen practionner and my mare suffered terribly with back problems which I, the vet , the chiro, the phyiso- you name it couldnt resolve. Belinda has managed to get to the root of the problem and is working my mare through her issues and illness.

If you would like her number p.m. me.

[dione]

Thx for all your heartening and helpfull info. Funnily enough Belinda Murphy did come and see Moby when i had not owned him long. I agree she is a fantastic rider/person and i put moby on the treatment she reccommended as well as completely changing his diet to what she said i should feed him, for 5/6 months. When she came to see him it was his 'mild' time of year but unfortunately he just diddnt get better. I dont beleive there is a physical problem at all. I have kept a diary for the last 2 1/2 yrs and i feel it is a mental/neurological problem.
Thx too Chrissie. I did speak to the vet (stephen Ashdown? cant quite remember his name) at Global Herbs earlier this year and again Moby was on their products for 4/5 months. The only difference was that Moby seemed a bit quieter in the field almost 'down' but absolutely no difference to the h/s. Strangely enough i do ride him in a happy mouth 3 ringed bit reins on the 2nd ring because Moby can be excessively strong when he is stressed (h/s), but of course this works on poll pressure. He seems very happy in this bit and i dont get the teeth grinding (when stressed) that i used to get with metal bits. Also moby hardly h/s at shows but i do wonder if it is contained, and this year he has been worse than last year.
At first when i got moby i felt very positive that we could work through his problem and i just got on with the riding and ignoring the h/s. But now that i know him so very well and know much more about h/s i feel very morally questionable about continuing to ride him. Just seeing the furrowed worried expression terrible rapid blinking excessive sweating the running away the weight drop within a hack. But other times he is so laid back but keen and happy, loves jumping, eager to please; its like riding 10 different horses!! because i have all the inbetween the 2 extremes.
Thx again. It seems like there are horses who seem to get cured and others who go to horsey heaven. All h/s seem to be a little bit different in their symptons and their cures. I will have to see what Dr knottenbelt says when he hopefully replies to my email

[chrissiew]

Oh Dione, it sounds like you have tried everything that we have all suggested. It is such a heart breaking condition that so very little is known about. I am so sorry for you and your horse and hope maybe that Dr Knottenbelt can help you.

Good luck, you have my heart felt sympathies.

Chrissie

[breezy]

Hiya,

I have trigeminal neuralgia myself so I can sympathise with your poor cob! It'a a horrible condition.

The conventional treatment for people is to put them on anti-convulsants like carbamazapine or gabapentin. They work by slowing the nerve down - TN is effectively nerve eplilepsy. They do have side effects - they can turn you into a zombie.

The next conventional treatment is to remove a compressing blood vessel from the dorsel root of the nerve inside the skull by the brainstem - these are found in over 80% of cases in humans. The removal of the blood vessel causes near instant relief from the pain. Sometimes it doesn't work (I've had 2!!!) and they don't quiet know why!

There are other treatments that address the problem at the nerve ganglion instead of the root - these tend to be ablative procedures although the newest radiofrequency device only heats up to 42 degrees and seems to re-jigg the nerve rather than destroy it.

The old fashioned approach was to cut the nerve but this often caused more problems with a permenent dullaching, grinding pain (anesthesia dolorosa) and of course loss of sensation to the face. I think this has been done in horses, I think with the same limited success.

Derek Knottenbelt is the best person to talk to - but it might be worth considering the use of anti-convulsants initially - you could see if this helped at all and if so it could buy you some time to find a better management system.

For myself, the pain is so bad when I get the paroxymal pains, that I cannot talk or eat or even breath - you find you avoid the triggers like light touching of the face, wind, brushing hair, teeth etc. I can wrap up when I go out, this time of the year I am only outside wearing a full balaclava. I have a neoprene bikers mask that I wear riding. It's great!

The idea of being tough on him when he headshakes makes me cringe, but then I realise that there is a large component of fear involved in living with TN - and horse's do have the ability to anticipate. I'd rather gentle firmness in a programme of desensitization. Removing all you can from the face and putting a barrier against wind/rain/pollen etc is important as well. I'd avoid a bit like the plague - look at bitless bridles or knotted headcollars - learn to neck rein?

I hope you don't think that I am out to scare you or to lecture you - I just wanted to put across something of what I go through so you, with so much sympathy for your horse can understand why he reacts like he does. Imagine someone zapping you with a cattle prod and you get some idea of the pain TN causes.

I think there is a long way to go in veterinary science to understand what is causing TN in horses, just as there is a way to go in humans - though the percentage of people, especially younger people (historically an elderly person's disease) that are getting it these days, is rising fast. This does mean that treatment is improving greatly - even in the 3 years (today) that I have had this the treatment options have improved.

Good luck to you and your horse and Merry Christmas!!

Bx

[dione]

Thx Breezy for your lovely email. Really interesting to hear from a persons view although I am sorry you suffer from TN. I still have not heard back from Dr Knottenbelt although I know xmas is a busy time for people. I do have a horrible feeling that Moby is not a straightforward case. I feel he finds being asked something whilst being constrained (ie lunged/longreined/ridden with/without bridle) causes him stress poss due to past bad experience maybe, which in turn helps set off h/s. He is a very sensitive little fellow and I ride mainly with weight aids but if he is having a bad time he really sets his neck and panics and he is terribly terribly strong in that mode. Say if he isnt slowing down as much as I would like i can lean forward and pat him and he softens/calms but if h/s bad sometimes I have had to fix 1 hand/rein on neck and haul as well as strong sideways leg aids which I hate doing. I did try him in a hackamore and there was no difference, but i ride in a plastic bit which he is better than a metal bit. Its just so hard because there are periods were i could not ask for a better horse and he is calm or h/s very mild. Especially at shows/ different places but i cant do that everytime i ride. Its the good bits that give hope. I did actually start to lose a lot of confidence in my riding/handling abilities and allowed a girl who is a kind sypathetic yet fun rider to hack and take him to the odd show, but he is the same with her and a few othere i let ride him to see if it is me. (I did buy him as a h/s but was rather ignorant at the time about the condition). He did actually completely bolt in panic with a friend of mine to which i was rather shocked. Unfortunately i could bore everyone to bits with page long details - sorry.
I am coming to the point where i think Moby may be better as a companion horse. When i first had him i was confident we could get by this problem but now i feel very disillusioned and reluctant to ride a horse who is suffering. I have heard very negative results re drugs hence why i went down the herb/homeopathic/food intolerance route. Also done loads of clicker training and walking in hand/polework in hand etc. Also my vet was very dismissive of the drugs working. In the field/stable Moby is h/s free.
Good luck with further treatment for yourself and hope you had a great Christmas.
Happy New Year
Dione x