|
|
Post by kas on Dec 13, 2005 12:28:54 GMT 1
If you keep your hand on a horse's rear as you move around behind them you are not at a safe distance. (Unless you have very, very long arms!!). You might feel the muscles tense under your hand and get out of the way quickly enough not to get kicked though. A lot of you are talking common sense, about making sure the horse knows you are there, not giving them any sudden surprises. It's not rocket science is it?  Francis - nasty electric encounter there!!  |
|
|
|
Post by marywelsh on Dec 13, 2005 13:22:00 GMT 1
hi val
otter does kick out in his stable and contacts the wall
at the beginning i fed him in the field and always on his own absolutely no bucket feed in his stable, also no-one else feeds him or titbits him so he only associates me with feed, he does share the field with my daughters pony who is non-confrontational so he knows she stays out the way, hay is fed far apart with lots of little piles as he use to run from one to the other defending his food, i show no reaction when he kicks in his stable but try to keep his attention and praise him for not kicking, honestly it has been hard work but rewarding,
and also remember the horse will clench its tail when getting ready to kick
|
|
|
|
Post by jor on Dec 13, 2005 15:44:42 GMT 1
I supose having been kicked veyr badly by a horse tied in a stall when I was right up against the wall on the far side going past him I am more inclined to go round the front.
I do still think people should be taught (for BHS) to go under the neck (I stress again NOT under the leadrope) though they are taught how to safely work near/around the horses back legs. I am positive if questioned for going round the back of a horse in an exam you gave a factual and valid argument as to why you choose the rear end than the front you would not be failed.
However I do know someone who sat her Stage I when you were still told results on the day that she failed for wlking behind a horse when she was grooming. I thought this was a bit over the top and she insisted she made sure the horse was aware she was there and kept a hand on the horses all the time, maybe the examiner just didnt like her!
As Ive mentioned I think all horses should be taught as foals to have people move ALL around them and that this is the norm. If its left THAT is when you have problems with horses kicking out in fright as people walk behind them.
My 8 month old filly can be stood behind whilst tied up, I stand dircetly behind her to brush her tail and lean over her bottom (stood directly behind her) to tickle her withers and feel under her belly. This sort of thing would be impossible with quite a few adult horses I know but if taught at a young age all this is ok and quite normal behaviour (even if its not!) then they wont have a problem with it and them possibly kicking/rearing/leaping about will be a very very tiny issue.
I still say I prefer the front end of a strange horse to the back end. I would be very uncomfortable walking behind (closely or otherwise) a strange horse. and much more comfortable going under his neck with a hand on him or wayyyyyyyy behind him (not that theres always space to do this!)
|
|
|
|
Post by Francis Burton on Dec 13, 2005 17:36:22 GMT 1
I do still think people should be taught (for BHS) to go under the neck (I stress again NOT under the leadrope) though they are taught how to safely work near/around the horses back legs. You're quite right of course, Jo. If the horse is tied "short", as advised by the Manual of Horsemanship, there will be more neck than leadrope anyway! I read today in my copy of the Manual that you can lift both left and right hind feet to pick them out while standing on the left side, and that the horse should quickly learn to do this. (One foot at a time, I mean - not both together! ;D ) I recently started to do this with one trustworthy horse, although I thought it was rather 'naughty'. It's nice to know the BHS would approve! |
|
|
|
Post by kas on Dec 13, 2005 18:10:10 GMT 1
Why the left side though?? Oh yes, I forgot - it's so we don't get our swords tangled in the horses legs...  I handle, lead and mount horses from both sides. Always a useful consideration if you happen to injure yourself and have to suddenly start working from the "off" side for a while. Helps the horses to have even muscle development as well. |
|
|
|
Post by wildrover on Dec 13, 2005 18:59:19 GMT 1
Walking behind a horse too close is a bad thing to do. Can be bad for your health anyway.
Walking under the horse's belly is an absolutely stupid stupid stupid stupid STUPID thing to do.
|
|
laura
Grand Prix Poster
going for a splash
Posts: 3,867
|
Post by laura on Dec 13, 2005 20:44:19 GMT 1
(P.S. Nuts does happen too - like when I was squeezing through a tensile steel fence, under the electrified strand. Double whammy. LOL!)
  ouch !!!!!!!!!!!!! interesting thread this on what is such a basic and everday occurence. while I would not do it with just any horses wildrover I have tried to do as Kas ( and other I think) said with Taz ... prepare horse for the unexpected. This means various objects touching and passing over / under horse at various speeds. This includes throwing sticks, balls , tarpaulins, plastic bags and even children ;D around the place !!!! Even if I burst baloons ( well Taz will burst them herself ;D) this is acceptable. I did this because I want to be able to ride around town and country where children appear suddenly, kick footballs and play with balloons ( or they are on gates advertiing parties ) ...... and know that taz is used to these things. Children also do unexpected things and whether on the yard or out in public the unexpected will always happen ...... children do not always listen !!!!! This might include little ones bending down to feet or trying to brush under a tummy. ( as my grandchild does) So as a conscious decision I chose to habitiate her to touches and movement beneath her belly ...... and have indeed done what you said . I crawled under her belly. . better me test it than a child do it for the first time. With children around the yard and Taz's fascination and gentle ways with them they seem mutually drawn to each other !!!!!!!!!! I cant have eyes in the back of my head despite all my years experience of children and horses and my motto is ..... if I can see the risk I prepare for the eventuality happening and try to put into place whatever will minimise chance of harm. I would not choose to do this with most horses though !!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Yann on Dec 13, 2005 20:46:21 GMT 1
And quite hard unless you're 2ft tall or have a 24hh horse  I trust my horse and she trusts me. I don't make a habit of it, but on the odd occasion I do go underneath her it isn't a problem or an issue for either of us. As has been pointed out our own horses ought to be happy to allow us anywhere around them without reacting. As you rightly say it would be stupid with a horse you didn't know though. |
|
|
|
Post by annahindley on Dec 13, 2005 20:53:28 GMT 1
I think the front can be risky too. I treat some stallions and colts, and nearly all of them strike out with there fronts, but also get it from others too (I'm not there to school other people's horses or tell them what to do either, so I'm sure all you lovely people have more respectful stallions and colts!) . In fact, the pony I treated today did this repeatedly - I can tell you, that would hurt! I reckon every horse is different and as most people have said, it is awareness that matters most. I personally did trust some of my horses, but not others, or not in every situation anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildrover on Dec 13, 2005 23:54:34 GMT 1
Yann - crawling under any horse's belly is not a good idea. It does not matter how well you know a horse, a horse is just that, a horse. An animal which will do something that you do not expect at some time. It may not be the fact that you are going under the horse that spooks him, it might be something else, but if your under there when it happens then you might not be in one piece. Equally, you might just tickle his belly while going under and the left hind will come up to scratch it - only problem is you are in the way.
I also remember a farrier telling me once that the quiet horses are the most dangerous. Those are the ones that lull you into a false sense of security and have you let your guard down. Unlike when dealing with a strange or troublesome horse, when of course you are fully on your guard at all times!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Yann on Dec 14, 2005 0:10:48 GMT 1
Sorry, no offence but I know my own horse and though it's not a great idea in the scheme of things going underneath her is not risky. Sometimes the quiet ones are just that |
|
|
|
Post by Francis Burton on Dec 14, 2005 0:59:39 GMT 1
I'm with Yann and Laura on this one. Surely it is up to the individual to assess the risk of any activity involving horses and come to their own decision.
Knowing the risks involved in eventing, I sincerely believe that, from my point of view, it is an absolutely stupid STUPID thing to do. I can see little benefit for me in hurtling over large fixed obstacles and a lot to lose in terms of serious (possibly fatal) injury. However, I also appreciate that some people have chosen to do this sport because for them the potential benefits outweigh the risks. Good luck to them, I say!
Yes, I do accept there is little utility value to crawling underneath a horse - though making a horse safer for others to be around is actually not a bad reason!
But walking behind a horse (to get from one side to the other) is so useful, I don't think I am going to give it up.
Final point: I think it is possible to be "on guard" all the time, even when you're with a relatively trustworthy horse and completely relaxed. I think it useful to be aware of horses' movements (and to develop your peripheral vision to improve that awareness) - not just to be safer, but also because it enables you to use movement more effectively as a two-way channel of communication.
|
|
|
|
Post by Francis Burton on Dec 14, 2005 1:08:15 GMT 1
Why the left side though?? Oh yes, I forgot - it's so we don't get our swords tangled in the horses legs... I handle, lead and mount horses from both sides. Always a useful consideration if you happen to injure yourself and have to suddenly start working from the "off" side for a while. Helps the horses to have even muscle development as well. Absolutely! Actually, my impression was they didn't mean that you should only do the feet from the left side - it was presented more as an example (I think, will have to check the book again!). And elsewhere they do recommend saddling from both sides. |
|
Bay Mare
Grand Prix Poster
Olympic Poster
Speak to the hoof
Posts: 1,818
|
Post by Bay Mare on Dec 14, 2005 8:19:27 GMT 1
I was taught (BHS) always to go round the front and, yes, people did fail for going around the back because of safety reasons. Apparently (according to my old YO) any deviation from the safety rules is an automatic fail.
My mare is pretty safe on the ground too but is more likely to strike out from the front (her Spanish Paw we call it). She rarely does it now but if she wants to register her displeasure about something and I ignore her she will use her front legs rather than her back!
I've seen someone kicked in the head going under a horse, even on a safe horse it's not something that I would do.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildrover on Dec 14, 2005 8:23:31 GMT 1
Yann - find me any horse professional that will advocate going under a horse's belly as acceptable?
Frances - Eventing maybe dangerous from your point of view - riding bareback might be from someone elses etc etc. In any event one unsafe practice does not make another unsafe practice any less so.
I do not believe crawling under a horse's belly is anything but an insane thing to do.
|
|
