When will they settle?

[cesca]

This topic has probably been done to death but I couldn't find it when I searched.

My horse has been in his new field two weeks. It's an enormous field on a hill. There are four mares and two other geldings in with him. One of the geldings went in on the same day as mine. The other has been there ages. He stays out at night with two of the mares, the other two come in. At the moment mine and the new gelding come in at night, though we would like to change this.

The established gelding is bullying the life out of the other gelding (not mine), chasing him round and round to the point that he's starting to lose weight. Mine is often sweaty under his rug too. I thought mine stood up to this gelding but twice now I've lost him when bringing him in, as this gelding is by the gate and mine freaks and won't go past and wants to run off.

The owners of the other new gelding have had it worse, the established gelding actually lunges at their horse when they are leading it. This has happened countless times now and it's two little girls who share him so it's really not safe.

There is another field mine could go in, but he was in there before and he's really not happy in there and can't go out at night.

Has anyone experienced anything like this, and do you think things will settle down in time or should I just give in and move him back to his old field now, before something awful happens?

(He got caught up in barbed wire yesterday, no real damage and we don't know he was chased there, but it happened all the same. Yes I know barbed wire is a complete no no but it's the only thing wrong with this amazing yard, plus there's only a bit above a costwold stone wall to protect it.)

Any advice/experience gratefully received.

[speedy]

Hello Cesca. I'm not going to be a lot of help I'm afraid, but thought I'd throw my two-penneths into the pot anyway

My gelding was a rig - he isn't now, but is still mare orientated if allowed. They are HIS mares and woe-betied (sp?) anyone who thinks otherwise. He becomes quite the little stallion. I would think that it's possible your established gelding is protecting his herd of mares from the marauding batchelors threatening to steal them from him. I would doubt that this will settle, unless the two new geldings form a seperate group and keep out of the way of his herd. Sorry Someone might come and prove me wrong though, which would be nice. I'm afraid, in my experience, I now won't mix mares and geldings, although I know a lot of people who manage just fine - I persevered for about 5 months and got more agro and injuries than pleasure.

PS. Did you get the mag with your lad in?

[mellymoo]

Could your lad and the other bullied gelding share the other field?

[Liz]

I was going to say the same as mellymoo. I must say I am not a fan of keeping mares and geldings together as it is frequently the cause of so many quarrels. At my yard, mares and geldings are separated and it really does maintain the peace much more.

[jor]

I would say you will have a serious injury before things settle down. If this gelding has been alone with the mares for quite a while he will see the mares as being 'his' and other geldings will not be welcomed, seen as a threat and chased from the 'herd'

Ive had this problem (I regularly mix mares and geldings as I only have two geldings, one stallion and the rest are girls!) and had to leave the one gelding with he mares and move the other gelding before the gelding being chased was hurt.

Again a slightly differnt situation was when one of my geldings (Kermit) started to chase and attack my older mare, she started to loose weight and was getting tense int he field, fortunately kermit is now in a new home and my mare has recovered and has put weight back on but I would hate for you to get into the same situation, or even worse yours or the other new ones horses getting hurt.

[smudge]

I had a very dominant gelding once. When I introduced a new horse he would chase it out and away from the group until he felt it had learned its place, he would then allow it in to the herd and all would be fine. This process would only take a couple of days - but, they were in constantly together - not separated at all - which I think could be lengthening your situation above.

I have always found that hacking two problem horses out together to be beneficial - any way this dominat gelding could be ridden out with the 2 newcomers?

[cesca]

Thanks very much guys, a pretty consistent point of view here. Tonight was no better. I was so worried about mine getting hurt that the YO has been out to check them for me 3 times today. During the day, there is no problem - the field is ENORMOUS (I love it!) and my lad and the other new boy go off and form their own herd.

HOWEVER bringing in is nigh on impossible. When the two mares come in, this gelding follows them to the gate and remains there. The YO came with me tonight, she had spoken to the owner of the dominant gelding who suggested taking a lunge whip, so she brought one and I went to get my lad. He was a little way away from the gate, with his friend, and the other gelding was in the opposite corner, past the gate. I caught him ok but as soon as we got near the gate he'd freak, I lost him once then the second time I kept hold and got him through, but it's a very small gate and I'm worried about getting trampled to be honest. It's immensely muddy so hard to keep your footing too.

He is TERRIFIED, this other gelding wasn't even THAT near, just looking from the corner. The other bullied one followed us out, he is petrified too.

Anyway, mine is back in the old field from tomorrow The YO is really annoyed, she thinks that as the dominant one is the one causing the problem, he should come out. I on the other hand don't want to make trouble and figure last in, first out.

I really feel sorry for the other little lad, I don't think his owners are going to give in as easily as I am because they are away for two weeks after Christmas, and want to be able to leave him out (rather than fork out for full livery, which they would have to do if he's in another field). He's not even going to have mine for company now.

Incidentally this other horse apparently has two small testicles, and he does have an enormous crest, though his owner did have a full vetting on him and the vet did a blood test for testosterone because of this, but he came back negative.

[jor]

i am quite shocked at your last post.

Not only is your YO in agreement with you, therefore should FORCE the owners of the domainant gelding to seperate him or remove him from the yard but the owners of this horse are abandoning him for two weeks to go on holiday??!!!!!

I would be very dubious about this horse, I take it he has not got a mare in foal but he is still acting like a stallion and has small testicles....he is a form of rig (even if not in a chemical sense)

Does your YO always get walked all over?!

[cesca]

Hi Jo, chill, I haven't made myself clear!!!

The YO wants to ask the owner of the "rig" to REMOVE him from the current field, as he is endangering horses and people. Her point is that if we move our two new boys out, then this gelding has "won" and also, it means she can't put any other horses in there in future, and she doesn't want that restriction. So she is going to ask the owner of the dominant gelding to move him out.

I am the one who doesn't want this to happen, simply because I've just arrived and I don't want to make waves like that. Also this gelding lives out all the time, and if he moves, he can't. He has been there for ages, we haven't.

The horse whose owners are going away is the bullied gelding's. This is why I am worried, I think the horse would/should come out of this field like mine is, but he may be left in there (without even my lad for company/security any more) simply because they are going away and it's going to be more convenient for them (though tomorrow I will point out that a full livery bill may be considerably less than a vet's bill).

[circusdancer]

I was pretty shocked by it too to be honest. A lunge whip isn't going to help the situation and whilst it might allow you to get your horse through without injury to you or him, it doesn't solve the problem.

There could be any number of reasons for this behaviour and whilst it looks initially that there is a problem with mares and geldings being mixed, I have known this happen in just a field of geldings. If you hadn't mentioned the testicles, then I'd have said this is a very insecure horse but it throws a different slant on it now.

Taking the problem horse out of the field is a quick fix and won't solve the issues. I don't think that splitting the mares from the geldings is going to work either because it seems to run deeper than that. Perhaps it would be worth trying though?

[jill]

I have found with horses and dogs that if you can somehow have them in reasonable proximity but unable to get at each other, they learn to a greater or lesser dgree to tolerate one another. I have used my round pen in the middle of the field, or good electric fencing to keep them apart, but encourage them gradually to get closer and closer - I use the siting of their piles of hay. Won't work if there is a real physical (hormonal) or psychological problem, but horses in their normal state, however much of a bully, will not expend a huge amount of energy in a pointless scrap, and tolerance for each other is a skill they can learn. I don't know whether you could organise something around who comes in and who stays out, Cesca, but it could be worth trying.

[jacqszoo]

I have the same problem myself but it is my old mare chasing my new young gelding. I kept them in the same paddock seperated by electric fencing for a while and when I first let them in together they were fine for an hour then my mare changed her mind (typical female <g>). Anyway three weeks on and things have improved, she tolerates him better and only pulls faces at him now and makes a half hearted attempt to chase him off he ignores her faces.

To help with the gate problem - would it be possible to fence off some sort of coral around the gateway? Preferably with two entrances so you can get your horse in and out without fear of the gelding barging past?

[Gem & Spencer]

We had this problem with Spencer last year. Through the summer he shares with mostly mares and a couple of geldings but through the winter the other geldings come in at night so Spencer decided the girls were his. come early spring a new mare and gelding (who knew each other but not our lot) were introduced to the herd.

The new gelding was very protective over his mare and tried to keep her seperate from the group and spencer instantly hated the gelding and chased him for hours, not letting him near his girls, or even to stop and eat! the new gelding was an eventer on holiday but Spencer (ID) could nearly out gallop him. the YO eventually took Spencer out as it was feared he would run the new boy into a fence or even straight into/over the top of him. Spencer was put in the sin bin (starvation paddock used for the laminitics) that is in such a position that he could see all his mates happily grazing alongside the newcomers whilst he was stuck in there with only little old pony for company, to think about what he had done!

when he was put back out in the big field if he so much as started towards the new gelding he was put straight back in the sin bin! it only took a few times of doing this for him to decided his precious grass was more important than chasing and they settled well - Spencer and the new guy were even seen to back scratch and play fight after a while (think he had missed the male bonding after having to spend so much time with nagging women!)

blimey i've prattled on a bit there but suppose i'm agreeing with what Jill has said. is there a way the bully can be segregated so he is still close enough to get to know the new guys but is unable to chase them when its time to come in?

Also would it be possible to make a safety zone (using electric fence) around the gateway so he can't crowd and chase you as you try to get out?

[anon]

Some geldings get on in a mixed herd. Some dont. The only safe answer is to remove the gelding that cant settle in a mixed herd, and have him in a glediings-only field.

In my experience - this situation never DOES settle.

[Kim with Rio]

Hi Cesca

In my experience you can have a mixed herd without issues, BUT this does depend on a number of things including space and personalities involved - if the problematic horse has testicles then I would agree, he needs to be moved. IMHO if there are constant problems and injuries then the horses have to be split-up for theirs and your own safety.

Hope you get this sorted out soon and everybody is happy! At least there is another field you can move neds into.

K