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Post by Notloggedin on Dec 23, 2005 9:51:44 GMT 1
I would be interested in views of those who have done this with their horse and the different methods used, also the reasons why they felt it ok to do with their horse.
thanks.
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Post by kas on Dec 23, 2005 9:53:38 GMT 1
Would it be a good idea to register? Because once the discussion starts you won't be able to reply unless you can login. Just a thought
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jo
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Post by jo on Dec 23, 2005 9:57:24 GMT 1
yep, thanks Kas, am registered - just couldn't find password where I normally have them stored..."********* OH" been tidying up this computer ;-(
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Post by gem on Dec 23, 2005 10:03:17 GMT 1
What do you mean by laying down this horse? I was told that when my foal is born I should force it to lay down and hold it for a few moments so it learns to submit, now Im not sure how impressed I was at the thought but apparently the person concerned does it with all their foals and all are happy and healthy.
Is that what you mean or have I got the wrong end of the stick
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jo
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Post by jo on Dec 23, 2005 10:15:32 GMT 1
I was more after reasons/methods for the adult horse thanks Gem!
I have little experience of handling foals, the only foal I handled was a 72 hrs colt and we needed to guide it with the mare out to the field. I cannot imagine the necessity to lay it down as I would consider that interference with the mare's bonding with her baby at such an important time.
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Post by holi on Dec 23, 2005 10:27:46 GMT 1
If I think its what you mean - I had a horse that I could rub his temples (bit like crocodile dundee!) gently while holding his neck with the other hand and he would go in to some sort of trance then lie down - totally flat out and snoring. I could sit with him then he would gradually wake up and sit up with me - it was very peaceful and he was completely rested. Mind you we did have a closr relationship as he had so many injuries, illnesses etc that I had nursed him for quite some time so he totally trusted me (lovely story as he is now out on loan - ridden intermittently when he is well - to a person who is ill herself and he sort of gives her comfort at her bad times - she says he is her therapy)
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Post by gem on Dec 23, 2005 10:29:31 GMT 1
No I dont really see the good in it either which is weird cause the people are really into natural horsemanship and everything, each to their own I suppose
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Post by holi on Dec 23, 2005 10:35:32 GMT 1
Gem it happened with me by chance when I was stroking him one day - no intention to make him do it - he just offered and after he had done it once would come back to have it done again (although not often) by nudging in to me when I was in the stable.
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tammy68
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Post by tammy68 on Dec 23, 2005 11:22:33 GMT 1
I know of two people who do this as a last resort in order to dominate a horse. In my opinion it does 2 things. Firstly if the horse is very dominant and is fighting then I have seen them become more biddable as the hierarchy I believe changes and the handler is dominant. Secondly, if the horse is frightened ( and a frightened horse is a dangerous horse) it seems to have a calming effect as it has been down on the floor and vulnerable and yet nothing bad has happened and he/she has survived. I have only seen it used as a last resort in order to at least give a dangerous horse a future. These are animals that were often sent as a last resort and all I can say is, for whatever reason, it does seem to work. Also, I know a very talented young man who can train them to lie down (even the most frightened horses respond) by just touching them repeatedly at the right place on their back. He can then train them to half get up so that they are sitting or to lie down flat out. He is extremely kind and patient and I have never known anyone with such natural talent and empathy for reading horses. He will lie a horse down though if he feels it necessary to improve its behaviour. It is only a part of the handling process though - it just seems t provide a mental state in the horse from which the rest of his training can be built. Please don't try it unless you know what you are doing as you could make matters worse or get yourself hurt. This is something that needs to be done by someone who is experienced.
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jo
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Post by jo on Dec 23, 2005 12:19:27 GMT 1
OK, so anyone with any idea of other methods please?
We lay my horse down 3 times in last 2 days, first time first day took 4 hours, 2nd time next day 10 mins, 3rd was 4 mins... using a bridle, normal full cheek snaffle and hobbling up one leg (near fore) tied to the horn of the western saddle. Asked for rein back, then tip nose to the Right until bowing and then waited til he eased the hocks over onto his side. Then I folded up the other fore leg to let him know I wanted him to stay there but still held onto the rein so he wouldn't get up without a signal. Unhobble the foreleg to release and give signal to get back up again after carrots and soothing voices. Very relaxed, calm, but was a LOT of pressure on the bit to get him to rein back and understand to go back into a bow.
My aim is to not use the force, not tie up leg and not use bridle.
He did not fight me (I wouldn't fight with any horse!) or panic at all at anytime but just wasn't 'getting' it without upping the pressure. He's the type who would sit on pressure happily if he doesn't understand something.
Initially when I tried using a clicker to get the bow this was to the left and my instructor felt it was dangerous to be having him fall with feet towards me and anyway all he would do is get his tad out, obviously he was enjoying something associated with the clicker! and I felt we were getting nowhere shaping the bow to get him to lay down. (I'm sure he just wasn't able to be concentrating!!!)
How is the laying down done using NH methods, ie feet/head towards or away, tie up or not, and what are the stages?
(\__/) (=’.’=) (“)_(“)
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Post by Casper on Dec 23, 2005 12:30:20 GMT 1
Why do you want your horse to lie down Jo? Is it for "tricks", a health issue you need to see, for fun or what?
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tammy68
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Post by tammy68 on Dec 23, 2005 12:31:08 GMT 1
I am no expert but the lad who had his pony here was brilliant at it. I saw him teach the wildest of shetlands, a double rig and his own pony Kaiser. He said they all had a ticklish spot on their backs and he spent ages, patiently tickling this spot until eventually they went down. I ought to get him to join this message board as he is amazing. After a couple of days he was able to get them all to lie down very quickly and without anything but a headcollar and leadrope. He has done some pieces in England's Equestrian magazine recently. He's very talented and makes things look easy but he can read horses so well which is a gift that I don't think you can teach others very easily. You either have it or you don't.
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Post by gem on Dec 23, 2005 12:31:20 GMT 1
holi sorry wasnt criticising you i was meaning the man who makes the foal lie down as a way of imprinting, not really getting how it would help a baby
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jo
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Post by jo on Dec 23, 2005 12:55:11 GMT 1
Casper - only reason I can think of is for myself really...not illness, not a trick certainly, just we have done so much together, I think of it as one more thing to be able to communicate to my horse, the techniques - I am interested in for safety for the horse (and myself)
I don't see it as dominance that I want to do this for, more as trust. But only if we can achieve it without the force which is what makes it dominance in my understanding. It was not me who lay him down using the bridle but my inst who has laid down many horses which are laid down as part of their training. I acknowlege his techniques and they do (indeed did!) work but I want to seek a less forceful way.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 23, 2005 13:14:50 GMT 1
( Gem, don't even think about it -------utter rubbish and would be very traumatic for a young foal. Mine have all grown up happy and healthy and with good manners, and I've never forced them to lie down can't believe someone would do that !!! ----Sorry, rant over!!
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