Food Agression

[Milk]

I have a nervous young horse who is VERY agressive over food, He will attack humans, both with teeth and hind legs if you stand within 2 horses lengths of him eating hard feed HOWEVER he is totally laid back with the other horses and will share feed bowls with them happily (in a small single sex group with others the same age and one 'nanny').

I KNOW this is a lack of trust in humans, (due to a lack of human contact not to any rough handling) but how do I deal with the attacks? At the moment I am making him back off his feed until given the all clear by me to return but is this correct or am I undoing the trust gaining steps I do between meal times by this. Should I just ignore when he attacks and hope it gets better as his trust builds or just avoid going within upset distance at meal times?

[gillmcg]

There was a horse on a previous yard I was at who was extremely aggressive around bucket feed. What we did with him was always feed him in the stable but in a feed bucket that hooked over the door. Whoever fed him stayed in the vicinity, initially just outside his comfort zone then moving into it so he reacted - as soon as he settled back to eating quietly they moved away. Friend's OH was best at this and within a week or two he could lean over his door and stroke his neck while he ate. I don't think we ever progressed to feeding him in an open space though - we didn't need to as he was stabled at night.......

Concer and Henry will eat out of the same bucket too but that isn't always a good thing - Conc (TB) has about twice as much as H (Welsh Blob - sorry Sharon!! ;D) who finishes his off then wanders over to share.....

[bumblesmum]

can you feed by hand? It may be time consuming but he would soon realise that you are not going to take it away? also agree with Jill about the comfort zone bit good policy too. let us know how you get on...

[Deleted]

Sorry, Bumblesmum, but I don't think I could recommend feeding a food-aggressive horse by hand. It could simply open up another type of aggressive behaviour, him mobbing you for food, and this time with you standing pretty close.

Taking control of feed time and working away at the edges of his comfort zone both sound like good things to try, though.

[Adam]

When he's eat wait for him to finish then walk up to the bucket and drop another handfull in. Do this for a few days then try it with some food still in their. It will teach him to accosiate the human's approach with more food.

I personaly wouldn't try backing him off the food as this will stress him over it. Also if another horse did this he might kick out to drive them off, which is something you don't want to encourage.

If he won't let you close enogh to drop in food try throwing it in from the nearest you can get.

[chrissiew]

Just a suggestion, but since changing my mare to Simple Systems feeds and cutting the sugar out of her diet, she is 110% less aggressive and aggitated about hard feed. Her arch enemy (and sometimes boyfriend) who is stabled opposite her, wandered out of his stable the other day whilst I was just about to give my mare her hard feed - days gone by he would have been "toast" and I would have been too! But she just made a face and went back to her haylage! Doesn't mean she doesn't eat her hard feed, but she just seems to take her time and looks absolutely fantastic on it.

Definitely worth a go, as this mare used to go into attack mode at people or horses over hard feed with legs or teeth whichever were handier at the time!

I have made progress on this issue before changing her feed over, by just trying to ignore it if possible and changing routines to avoid issues. I never, even now, feed her outside of her stable or if fed in the field, around other horses.

I agree with the above comments, I used to put her feed in the stable, stand as quiet as I could just on the edge of her comfort zone for a few seconds only to begin with, then withdraw. Over the years this has been expanded on, so that I can now do anything I want when she eats including mucking out etc, but I do still give her respect and watch for signals if she is uncomfortable. In the initial stages, she was told off only if she actually came at me badly and then I would growl, do a banshee impression and send her away from the food for a few minutes and then let her back and stand quietly again. This did take some doing initially, as she could get very scarey. It has worked though and she is now 10 and perfectly safe in the stable when feed is around, although before the Simple Systems feeds she would still make faces and if you didn't know her, you would think she was going to have a go, but she knows her boundaries now and was just posturing. Post Simple Systems feeds, she doesn't even do this very often.

[Red's Dad Mike]

instead of feeding her by hand try holding the bucket and let her feed from that, you then have the control to take it away when she becomes aggressive, if she does become aggressive take it away for say 10 mins then go back etc and she may get the link that aggressive behavour means food goes away, its worth a go.

[varkie]

I don't actually think it helps at all to remove food from a food aggressive horse - I think this is more likely to confirm in the horse that it has a reason to be aggressive to you when food is involved!

In my opinion, the best policy with food aggressive horses is to back right off them, and let them have some peace & time alone when eating. Then, gradually over time, if you feel it is an issue you have to actively deal with, then start getting into your horses comfort zone, tiny degrees at a time. I have had food aggressive horses before, and have actually found that mostly just backing off them makes them feel more secure, and over time they will let you nearer without any problems.

I think generally food aggression has its basis in insecurity, so the general way forward is to make the horse feel more secure.

[tomsmum]

echo varkie above definately don't take the food away , my horse has food agrression and i found by stood ouside the stable door holding the bucket helped we can now touch him change rugs etc while he's eating although he still throws his head around and makes a half hearted attempt to be vicious .

[pip]

I agree with Varkie. Taking the horse's food away will make them even more anxious. Some horses just want to be left in peace when they eat, and it is "their" time, others are not so bothered. It is obviously an issue with this horse that you want to improve, so I think the ideas of gradually getting into her comfort zone sound sensible.

The change of diet sounds interesting too.

[Francis Burton]

varkie said:

I don't actually think it helps at all to remove food from a food aggressive horse - I think this is more likely to confirm in the horse that it has a reason to be aggressive to you when food is involved!

I agree with Varkie too.

Here's something I wrote about food aggression a while back which might be relevant.

Quote (slightly edited):

While on the subject of Max, I would like to describe an incident that got me thinking yet again about the issue of dominance, and how interpreting horse behaviour in particular ways might lead one down undesirable paths.

The incident -- if it can be called that -- occurred one evening feed-time. As usual, Max was keen to get his coarse mix; as usual, I brought the bucket from the feed room into the yard through the pipe gate. I normally place the bucket on the ground in the middle of the yard. He will walk up to it, put his head down and start eating. Then I will leave him to get on with it, or pick out his feet. This time his behaviour on my entering the yard was atypical. He put his ears back and there was obvious tension in his facial muscles. He also tossed his head a couple of times (the way he does after marking a dung pile).

I am still holding the bucket. What do I do?

I withhold the bucket. The behaviour gets a bit stronger. The way he moves and the tenseness in his back make it look as if he might kick, although, knowing him as well as I do, it seems inconceivable to me that he would do so. (He has never kicked or bitten me before.) Nevertheless, he looks seriously annoyed. I turn my body so that I am between him and the bucket. For a moment, I contemplate making an issue of this - i.e. letting him know, one way or another, that such behaviour is rude and that he must defer to me until he behaves more respectfully.

But this doesn't feel right at all! So I set the bucket down in front of him realising that I have already missed the boat and allowed a situation to arise in which I have almost certainly rewarded an unwanted behaviour.

Then it occurred to me that this behaviour might be interpreted by some people in terms of dominance. Indeed, this could be taken to represent a classic "competition for food" scenario. Those who insist that one must always be considered the dominant individual -- above the horse in the "pecking order" or hierarchy -- might seize upon this situation as one where it is necessary, even desirable, to assert oneself. In withholding feed and upping the body language, there may be "a bit of a battle" - but as long as the horse backs down in the end it will have been worthwhile in terms of gaining the upper hand. So the argument goes.

Actually, I believe Max's behaviour had nothing to do with him testing my dominance or exerting his. He was merely expressing impatience and frustration at the slow arrival of the feed. At first I was incidental to food arriving. Had I continued to thwart him, I would have become a central figure. Had I proceeded to engage in a show of dominance, the result would have been resentment. I would have gained nothing in "respect". Better instead to have anticipated and avoided such an emotional reaction altogether, I reckon. Ah well, we live and learn.

[chrissiew]

I agree that withholding the food is not the first or best option to take - I only ever kept Minnie away from her feed for a few seconds when she really overstepped the line and was making it dangerous. However, I also don't think that just hooking a feed over the door or dropping a feed as quickly as possible is the answer either. The best thing that worked for me was a very very gradual stretching of the comfort zone and patience levels of my horse. Yes she was impatience to get her food, but by gradually stretching this, it got better.

HOWEVER, I can only reiterate what I said above about sugar free food - please please look at changing the feed, it really does work. My mare has virtually no food issues now - I even Keratex her feet etc whilst she is eating. This is a mare that when she was younger would pin you in the box with her body as you were walking away from putting her feed in the manger or if you dared to go behind her she would left fly with no warning and would also come from the back of her box where her feed was to the front to warn people away with her teeth.

My mare now moves quite happily during the night between her "hard feed" and haylage and is just less anxious about the whole feeding thing.

[cosmo]

Hi - I have similar thread to this on the general horse chat part. I too have started to cut the sugar out in my ponies diet and this coupled with other issues I'm tackiling seem to be having an effect. My pony has half walls in his stable so others can peer over at him whilst eating which he hates. His field mate was also being given hard feed in the field whilst he was there which I have requested is stopped as believe they may be squabbling over it and maybe slightly responsible for the problems I am having (the mare in question has pratically been dumped and I have been feeding her for the past 4 years- another livery also started feeding her recently in the mornings so have requested that this stops and I'll feed her prior to turning my pony out with her). I now bring my pony in, groom, change rugs, feed and then put him in his stable and leave him in peace. His behaviour regarding food is gradually improving.

[rosiesmumof4]

Agree with all said about changing diet and not removing food, but also is it essential for the horse to be bothered whilst feeding - I certainly wouldn't appreciate having my hair brushed or my shoes changed while I'm eating my tea, and so basically I leave my animals to feed in peace, other than if i've time standing leaning on the box door to watch them.