Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 10:49:17 GMT 1
Subject : Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 12.04.05 9:16:00 PM
I brought my mare in this evening and she appeared to have warm feet when i was picking them out. So i checked for digital pulses, and they were fairly light and i had to press hard to get the pulse!
Please excuse my ignorance but should you be able to feel the pulse in a normal horse and that laminitis is only apparent when the pulse is very strong?
They are out 24 hours at the moment but she will be coming in in the day tomorrow as a precaution.
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 12.04.05 9:19:00 PM
just to amend i mean should you be able to feel the digital pulse in a normal horse?
Obviously a normal horse would have a pulse of some kind! LOL
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 12.04.05 9:30:00 PM
Not if it was dead ;-)
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : JustineJ
Date : 12.04.05 9:57:00 PM
Yes, you should feel a light digital pulse in a normal horse.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Jackie
Date : 12.04.05 10:04:00 PM
Some I would say Justine - normal for my horse is no discernable pulse at any time. I'll allow an occasional pulse I describe as 'consistent with life', ie just feelable with a light touch (some disappear if you pinch firmly), but anything more than that that persists round the clock and I have trouble of some kind brewing.
Do watch the grass now folks - the sugar is starting to climb with the warm sun and with these cold nights there'll be trouble looming soon for somebody.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 12.04.05 10:05:00 PM
Trouble is their pulses vary like us - best thing to do is get to know what is normal for your own horse. I think we all start feeling for pulses when we are worried and don't know what is the norm.
Isabel
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : syue
Date : 12.04.05 10:50:00 PM
is the horse best out at night or in the day to avoid the sugars. sorry to gate crash op but think we may both benefit from the answer if jackie is still about thanks
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Jackie
Date : 13.04.05 1:01:00 AM
Sugars are lower at night - highest between about 11am and 4pm, when the sun is highest.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 13.04.05 6:29:00 PM
Sorry - must disagree slightly with that. Although the sugars are being produced during the hours of 11am and 4pm, they are actually at their highest between around 7-10am in sunshine after a light frost. The advice from the Laminitis Clinic is that if the horse must be turned out during the day, not to turn out before 10am to reduce the risks and that if given night time turnout to bring in as near to 7am as possible. The Laminitis Clinic always advise that the most dangerous period is first thing in the morning.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : syue
Date : 13.04.05 8:28:00 PM
many thanks both jackie and anon6.29
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 13.04.05 9:18:00 PM
I am sorry, I am sure you are mistaken, sugars are generally low first thing in the morning.
Think about it - sunshine makes sugar, and overnight (if temps are above 6 degrees) that sugar is being used up as growth continues when photosynthesis has halted, so sugar levels fall. They can only rise again when photosynthesis starts up again with the sun, and that takes time, say to mid morning.
If no sugars are used during a frosty night which halted growth, they will NOT be any lower first thing next morning, its true, but they will rise further through the morning if there is sunshine. On a sunny day after a frost sugars can continue to rise all day long and peak in the early evening.
Annette Longland of IGER who does all the grass research therefore suggest laminitic horses are turned out late evening or early morning and brought in by mid morning, and kept off grass altogether after frosts. I am sure the Laminitis Clinic are not at odds with her.
You may be thinking of advice about avoiding the risk of colic from horses eating a load of frozen grass if turned out too early? If my horses are going out after a frost, I wait until the frost has melted.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 14.04.05 10:57:00 AM
Thanks for all your replies.
She stayed in yesterday and is in again today and will be going back out tonight. I will be keeping an eye on her pulses from now on....
I have ordered her a best friend grazing muzzle as she has to stay in by herself and she hates it and really winds herself up!
If only i could explain to her when she gets the muzzle that its that or staying in by herself!
Shes not a particularly tolerant horse so i'll have to see how she gets on. Has anyone got any tips on getting them used to it?
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Pen
Date : 14.04.05 11:47:00 AM
Nic - have you ordered the one with the integral headcollar - I think its best as you can put it on quite snug/tight and it will stay on despite efforts to rub it off ect. It has the breakaway buckle so if horse does get caught up it will come off in emergency. To begin with I made sure my pony knew he could eat with it on by poking grass up the hole in the base of the muzzle for him. Also check that grass isn't so short that it won't reach into muzzle and so can't be eaten or that it isn't so long that it bends over instead of reaching into muzzle - although I think most horses seem to get the knack of eating through it in about 2-3 days. I put fleece protectors on headpiece and cheekpieces to prevent rubbing.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Carol
Date : 14.04.05 2:03:00 PM
BEWARE. My friends horse was fine weds am. The farrier came to give her a trim. When jaki went to field Weds night at 6, Kitty was a cripple. Vet was called. 2 hrs later vet arrived and diagnosed Lami in all four feet! Kit was lame only on the hinds visibly. Looked like she had done her back in.
Kit is 12 and had lami 18 months ago in... NOV!!!
She is 15 hands and in lean not fat. Not rugged and I would say there wasnt a lot of grass in her field. Fed only a mouthfull and only when worked.
Please Please keep alert. Im terrified for my two now. They are a little overweight, though not fat.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 18.04.05 3:53:00 PM
Pen - yes i've ordered the integral headcollar one, much easier than trying to attach to a headcollar and shes bound to get attached to something so the breakway thing will no doubt be used! Good idea about the fleece - prevention is better than cure...
It hasn't arrived yet (grr) but she hasn't really minded coming in with the nasty weather as at least she gets to dry off!
The grass is not too short so she should be ok but she isn't going to be very happy, i'll let you know how she does and if she accepts it there is hope for us all!!
Nic
From : Nic
Date : 12.04.05 9:16:00 PM
I brought my mare in this evening and she appeared to have warm feet when i was picking them out. So i checked for digital pulses, and they were fairly light and i had to press hard to get the pulse!
Please excuse my ignorance but should you be able to feel the pulse in a normal horse and that laminitis is only apparent when the pulse is very strong?
They are out 24 hours at the moment but she will be coming in in the day tomorrow as a precaution.
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 12.04.05 9:19:00 PM
just to amend i mean should you be able to feel the digital pulse in a normal horse?
Obviously a normal horse would have a pulse of some kind! LOL
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 12.04.05 9:30:00 PM
Not if it was dead ;-)
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : JustineJ
Date : 12.04.05 9:57:00 PM
Yes, you should feel a light digital pulse in a normal horse.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Jackie
Date : 12.04.05 10:04:00 PM
Some I would say Justine - normal for my horse is no discernable pulse at any time. I'll allow an occasional pulse I describe as 'consistent with life', ie just feelable with a light touch (some disappear if you pinch firmly), but anything more than that that persists round the clock and I have trouble of some kind brewing.
Do watch the grass now folks - the sugar is starting to climb with the warm sun and with these cold nights there'll be trouble looming soon for somebody.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 12.04.05 10:05:00 PM
Trouble is their pulses vary like us - best thing to do is get to know what is normal for your own horse. I think we all start feeling for pulses when we are worried and don't know what is the norm.
Isabel
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : syue
Date : 12.04.05 10:50:00 PM
is the horse best out at night or in the day to avoid the sugars. sorry to gate crash op but think we may both benefit from the answer if jackie is still about thanks
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Jackie
Date : 13.04.05 1:01:00 AM
Sugars are lower at night - highest between about 11am and 4pm, when the sun is highest.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From :
Date : 13.04.05 6:29:00 PM
Sorry - must disagree slightly with that. Although the sugars are being produced during the hours of 11am and 4pm, they are actually at their highest between around 7-10am in sunshine after a light frost. The advice from the Laminitis Clinic is that if the horse must be turned out during the day, not to turn out before 10am to reduce the risks and that if given night time turnout to bring in as near to 7am as possible. The Laminitis Clinic always advise that the most dangerous period is first thing in the morning.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : syue
Date : 13.04.05 8:28:00 PM
many thanks both jackie and anon6.29
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 13.04.05 9:18:00 PM
I am sorry, I am sure you are mistaken, sugars are generally low first thing in the morning.
Think about it - sunshine makes sugar, and overnight (if temps are above 6 degrees) that sugar is being used up as growth continues when photosynthesis has halted, so sugar levels fall. They can only rise again when photosynthesis starts up again with the sun, and that takes time, say to mid morning.
If no sugars are used during a frosty night which halted growth, they will NOT be any lower first thing next morning, its true, but they will rise further through the morning if there is sunshine. On a sunny day after a frost sugars can continue to rise all day long and peak in the early evening.
Annette Longland of IGER who does all the grass research therefore suggest laminitic horses are turned out late evening or early morning and brought in by mid morning, and kept off grass altogether after frosts. I am sure the Laminitis Clinic are not at odds with her.
You may be thinking of advice about avoiding the risk of colic from horses eating a load of frozen grass if turned out too early? If my horses are going out after a frost, I wait until the frost has melted.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 14.04.05 10:57:00 AM
Thanks for all your replies.
She stayed in yesterday and is in again today and will be going back out tonight. I will be keeping an eye on her pulses from now on....
I have ordered her a best friend grazing muzzle as she has to stay in by herself and she hates it and really winds herself up!
If only i could explain to her when she gets the muzzle that its that or staying in by herself!
Shes not a particularly tolerant horse so i'll have to see how she gets on. Has anyone got any tips on getting them used to it?
Nic
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Pen
Date : 14.04.05 11:47:00 AM
Nic - have you ordered the one with the integral headcollar - I think its best as you can put it on quite snug/tight and it will stay on despite efforts to rub it off ect. It has the breakaway buckle so if horse does get caught up it will come off in emergency. To begin with I made sure my pony knew he could eat with it on by poking grass up the hole in the base of the muzzle for him. Also check that grass isn't so short that it won't reach into muzzle and so can't be eaten or that it isn't so long that it bends over instead of reaching into muzzle - although I think most horses seem to get the knack of eating through it in about 2-3 days. I put fleece protectors on headpiece and cheekpieces to prevent rubbing.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Carol
Date : 14.04.05 2:03:00 PM
BEWARE. My friends horse was fine weds am. The farrier came to give her a trim. When jaki went to field Weds night at 6, Kitty was a cripple. Vet was called. 2 hrs later vet arrived and diagnosed Lami in all four feet! Kit was lame only on the hinds visibly. Looked like she had done her back in.
Kit is 12 and had lami 18 months ago in... NOV!!!
She is 15 hands and in lean not fat. Not rugged and I would say there wasnt a lot of grass in her field. Fed only a mouthfull and only when worked.
Please Please keep alert. Im terrified for my two now. They are a little overweight, though not fat.
Subject : re:- Laminitis Concerns - digital pulses
From : Nic
Date : 18.04.05 3:53:00 PM
Pen - yes i've ordered the integral headcollar one, much easier than trying to attach to a headcollar and shes bound to get attached to something so the breakway thing will no doubt be used! Good idea about the fleece - prevention is better than cure...
It hasn't arrived yet (grr) but she hasn't really minded coming in with the nasty weather as at least she gets to dry off!
The grass is not too short so she should be ok but she isn't going to be very happy, i'll let you know how she does and if she accepts it there is hope for us all!!
Nic