Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 10:22:20 GMT 1
Subject : Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 12:15:00 AM
My horse has a large sarcoid on his eye, BCG injection is the best treatment, but my vet cannot get hold of the BCG.Should I try another vet?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:02:00 PM
Just had a look at this comparing different treatments
www.tamaris.org.uk/sarcoidcomments/sarcoid.asp#what
I'd try another vet. Have you tried contacting Langford?
Subject : Susie
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:11:00 PM
You vet CAN get the BCG. Most likely as a non proven treatment he is not prepared to take any risks. Like all vets in the horse world they look after number one first. And thats NOT your horse as sad as that may seem. Get yourself another vet if I were you. One that's prepared to give your animal treatment rather than just take your money for consultation. They are very good at that.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:32:00 PM
Vet has asked Langford, but they dont have any, and their suppliers are not stocking it.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 7:35:00 PM
There certainly has been a problem obtaining this vaccine to vaccinate the school kids ( I work as a school nurse)
Our whole programme was delayed due to no stock and then suspended part of way through due to depleted stocks in country
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:41:00 PM
Pinky,
Do you know what BCG is, I know its for human use?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 8:07:00 PM
Its the Bacillus Calmette-Guerin vaccine and is a live vaccine. We obviously use it to vaccinate against TB in humans. After administration the end result is a flat scar at the site of injection.
I am very interested to hear that it is a treatment for sarcoids and surprised really as if the vaccine is disturbed by scratching of the site it will produce a bigger scar. If any vaccine gets spilt or comes into contact with any broken areas, it must be scrubbed as a scar could develop. For example if you had a cold sore and touched it with vaccine on your fingers then a scar would result.
I would be interested to hear why BCG works for sarcoids, anyone know the scientific theory?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Wendy
Date : 01.06.03 10:05:00 PM
Not sure about why BCG works but I read on the Liverpool University Veterinary School website that radiation therapy was 100% effective against sarcoids around the eye area. It's incredibly expensive and uncomfortable for the horse however, although I believe, from talking to my vet, the same goes for BCG treatment. When Crystal had her sarcoids I did loads of web searches and the Liverpool Uni one was very informative.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 10:42:00 PM
I suppose the scarring that BCG would provide could help but wonder how it shrinks the sarcoid???
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Wendy
Date : 01.06.03 10:54:00 PM
Is it not soemthing to do with it being a live virus and therefore provoking the body to attack the sarcoid into which it's been injected?
Not that I'm a vet or anything!
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Jeanette
Date : 02.06.03 0:02:00 AM
I had a little coloured cob that had this method used to remove a sarcoid near one of his eyes,
Vet advised me that it may take 3 injections before sarcoid went but it went within a couple of weeks of the first injection and healed beautifully, would never have known it was ever there!
I know the injection the vet used on this little horse was bcg with something else but cant remember what the something else was! Will try to find the vet bill to see.
We had this done about 5 months ago and vet had no problem getting the stuff, infact had it in his car. He only came to sedate the horse so we could clip him but he said to do the injectin for the sarcoid at same time to save having to sedate him again!
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 02.06.03 8:28:00 AM
Sarcoids often tend to reoccur months or even years after bcg treatment.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 8:47:00 AM
It does not always end in success, a lady I knew had her horses treated and it was not long before they they came back much worse, unfortunately his face became covered and he was humanely destroyed to save any further suffering.
I have a horse who had sarcoids when he was 3, they were removed surgically and then frozen, he is now 9 and no more have appeared. However I have since heard that we must have been incredibly lucky as this method has only something like 30% success rate.
I currently have another horse with sarcoids and I am not doing anything about them at present as I have read loads of stuff and all the threads on here and I simply can't decide what to do for the best. He had two on his sheath that seem to have grown themselves off him, no regrowth yet.
I think if the body can used its own defences to shift them this has got to be the best way.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sutton
Date : 02.06.03 9:07:00 AM
I can't decide what to do for the best either. I was slated on Saddle Up for saying that I'd try Camrosa ointment and also boosting the immune system up with Echincea. Was told that Camrosa was useless and I might be doing more harm than good with boosting the immune system up. This seems to run counter to the BCG injections as a good immune system would to my mind be essential in vaccination cases.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 10:36:00 AM
I used echinacea with my last sarcoid case and cleavers, but whose to say whether it helped or not?
Like you sutton I am very undecided about Camrose ointment.
I am just sitting tight at present to see what happens.
The two on his sheath sort of hatched!, was really horrible, like that film Aliens! Has left some scar tissue but not really sarcoids.
He has a large one behind the front leg which looks as though it may be due to 'hatch' soon.
Its very hard deciding what to do for the best I agree
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sutton
Date : 02.06.03 11:03:00 AM
Sharon, my pony's are on the sheath and they look like claws or shoots from a sprouting potato. What do your horse's look like as I don't even know if they are sarcoids or warts.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 11:11:00 AM
There are lots of different types, the ones on Murph start of like a pea under the skin which grow to about the size of large marbles, they have then burst out and are like little brains (YUK I know) and are really hard.
They get a little bit of rough skin on them first.
If you look back and search for other threads there is a loads of info with links to other sites which have lots of pictures that might help.
I found my local vets useless, kept trying to say they were fly bites.
I do know of several people who have had treatment on their horses and then regretted it as they have come back with avengence.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : 1st poster
Date : 02.06.03 6:45:00 PM
I have used homeopathy with great sucsess, also Camrosa on small sarcoids, but the Camrosa made it much worse on another horse.
This horse I put a lamb band on one, on his sheath, that is gone with no scar.But the Camrosa and the herbs and the homeopathy have not worked so far on his eye
From :
Date : 01.06.03 12:15:00 AM
My horse has a large sarcoid on his eye, BCG injection is the best treatment, but my vet cannot get hold of the BCG.Should I try another vet?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:02:00 PM
Just had a look at this comparing different treatments
www.tamaris.org.uk/sarcoidcomments/sarcoid.asp#what
I'd try another vet. Have you tried contacting Langford?
Subject : Susie
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:11:00 PM
You vet CAN get the BCG. Most likely as a non proven treatment he is not prepared to take any risks. Like all vets in the horse world they look after number one first. And thats NOT your horse as sad as that may seem. Get yourself another vet if I were you. One that's prepared to give your animal treatment rather than just take your money for consultation. They are very good at that.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:32:00 PM
Vet has asked Langford, but they dont have any, and their suppliers are not stocking it.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 7:35:00 PM
There certainly has been a problem obtaining this vaccine to vaccinate the school kids ( I work as a school nurse)
Our whole programme was delayed due to no stock and then suspended part of way through due to depleted stocks in country
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 01.06.03 7:41:00 PM
Pinky,
Do you know what BCG is, I know its for human use?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 8:07:00 PM
Its the Bacillus Calmette-Guerin vaccine and is a live vaccine. We obviously use it to vaccinate against TB in humans. After administration the end result is a flat scar at the site of injection.
I am very interested to hear that it is a treatment for sarcoids and surprised really as if the vaccine is disturbed by scratching of the site it will produce a bigger scar. If any vaccine gets spilt or comes into contact with any broken areas, it must be scrubbed as a scar could develop. For example if you had a cold sore and touched it with vaccine on your fingers then a scar would result.
I would be interested to hear why BCG works for sarcoids, anyone know the scientific theory?
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Wendy
Date : 01.06.03 10:05:00 PM
Not sure about why BCG works but I read on the Liverpool University Veterinary School website that radiation therapy was 100% effective against sarcoids around the eye area. It's incredibly expensive and uncomfortable for the horse however, although I believe, from talking to my vet, the same goes for BCG treatment. When Crystal had her sarcoids I did loads of web searches and the Liverpool Uni one was very informative.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Pinky
Date : 01.06.03 10:42:00 PM
I suppose the scarring that BCG would provide could help but wonder how it shrinks the sarcoid???
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Wendy
Date : 01.06.03 10:54:00 PM
Is it not soemthing to do with it being a live virus and therefore provoking the body to attack the sarcoid into which it's been injected?
Not that I'm a vet or anything!
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Jeanette
Date : 02.06.03 0:02:00 AM
I had a little coloured cob that had this method used to remove a sarcoid near one of his eyes,
Vet advised me that it may take 3 injections before sarcoid went but it went within a couple of weeks of the first injection and healed beautifully, would never have known it was ever there!
I know the injection the vet used on this little horse was bcg with something else but cant remember what the something else was! Will try to find the vet bill to see.
We had this done about 5 months ago and vet had no problem getting the stuff, infact had it in his car. He only came to sedate the horse so we could clip him but he said to do the injectin for the sarcoid at same time to save having to sedate him again!
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From :
Date : 02.06.03 8:28:00 AM
Sarcoids often tend to reoccur months or even years after bcg treatment.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 8:47:00 AM
It does not always end in success, a lady I knew had her horses treated and it was not long before they they came back much worse, unfortunately his face became covered and he was humanely destroyed to save any further suffering.
I have a horse who had sarcoids when he was 3, they were removed surgically and then frozen, he is now 9 and no more have appeared. However I have since heard that we must have been incredibly lucky as this method has only something like 30% success rate.
I currently have another horse with sarcoids and I am not doing anything about them at present as I have read loads of stuff and all the threads on here and I simply can't decide what to do for the best. He had two on his sheath that seem to have grown themselves off him, no regrowth yet.
I think if the body can used its own defences to shift them this has got to be the best way.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sutton
Date : 02.06.03 9:07:00 AM
I can't decide what to do for the best either. I was slated on Saddle Up for saying that I'd try Camrosa ointment and also boosting the immune system up with Echincea. Was told that Camrosa was useless and I might be doing more harm than good with boosting the immune system up. This seems to run counter to the BCG injections as a good immune system would to my mind be essential in vaccination cases.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 10:36:00 AM
I used echinacea with my last sarcoid case and cleavers, but whose to say whether it helped or not?
Like you sutton I am very undecided about Camrose ointment.
I am just sitting tight at present to see what happens.
The two on his sheath sort of hatched!, was really horrible, like that film Aliens! Has left some scar tissue but not really sarcoids.
He has a large one behind the front leg which looks as though it may be due to 'hatch' soon.
Its very hard deciding what to do for the best I agree
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sutton
Date : 02.06.03 11:03:00 AM
Sharon, my pony's are on the sheath and they look like claws or shoots from a sprouting potato. What do your horse's look like as I don't even know if they are sarcoids or warts.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : Sharon
Date : 02.06.03 11:11:00 AM
There are lots of different types, the ones on Murph start of like a pea under the skin which grow to about the size of large marbles, they have then burst out and are like little brains (YUK I know) and are really hard.
They get a little bit of rough skin on them first.
If you look back and search for other threads there is a loads of info with links to other sites which have lots of pictures that might help.
I found my local vets useless, kept trying to say they were fly bites.
I do know of several people who have had treatment on their horses and then regretted it as they have come back with avengence.
Subject : re:- Sarcoids & BCG injections
From : 1st poster
Date : 02.06.03 6:45:00 PM
I have used homeopathy with great sucsess, also Camrosa on small sarcoids, but the Camrosa made it much worse on another horse.
This horse I put a lamb band on one, on his sheath, that is gone with no scar.But the Camrosa and the herbs and the homeopathy have not worked so far on his eye