Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 10:42:35 GMT 1
Subject : Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 8:43:00 AM
One of my horses is prone to laminitis and I am really determined that she doesn't get it this year. I have really been watching her weight this winter ans so far (touch wood) she isn't carrying too much weight and hasn't got a cresty neck. (she's 16hh cob x TB? puts weight on easily)
My question is, what supplements have you tried that have really worked in keeping the dreaded laminitis at bay?
I'd like to start giving her something now before the spring has arrived to build up her resistance.
Coincidentally, her glands where her face meets the neck always swell up from late spring to late summer. My vet says its nothing to worry about, but I can't help but think that there is a connection. Would something like echinacea (sp?) help to boost her immune system?
Thankyou in anticipation of any replies.
Ally(North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Wildcard
Date : 13.02.03 8:54:00 AM
Hi Ally
Not much help here but you have worried me a bit, my horses parotid glands also swelled up a couple of days ago - do you really think there is a link?
They have never done so before so I'm starting to get a bit worried.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 13.02.03 8:55:00 AM
Hi Ally....
Is your horse prone due to feed related problems ??
If so would recommend you talk to vet and/or Lam Trust about the use of Founderguard. I have a couple of freinds use this with great success.
Vet Peter Brown has also set up a website with more info - www.foundergaurd.com
You still need to keep on top of the managemnet side of things but it is very effective.
The only problem one friend had was that he runs an organic farm so had to seek additional advice before he could use it as could have affected his farm status due to the contents.
As for other items..... a lot depends upon the cause behind the illness but as a general rule this is what I use for my high risk mare and other natives.
Naf D-Tox and Yea-Sacc - at high doasge level during all high risk periods.
Cut, dried wilted nettles as they contain certian minerals and vitamins that are very beneficial.
Hawthorn - fortunately the field has a large amount of hawthorn hedging so they help themselves but you can get mixes from Hilton Herbs.
Free access to Salt and Mineral Blocks at all times. Iodised salt is best if you can get it.
In tha past I have used Farriers Formula but found I only really need it during the winter if things get really bad. Robert Eustace also only tends to recommend winter too unless for specific reasons.
When the causes are more hormone or insulin related then there are other products that can help such as magnesium oxide etc. To explore that avenu more I would suggest you take a look at the Cushings DG on Yahoo www.onelist.com/community/EquineCushings
You could also try:
groups.yahoo.com/group/laminitis
Hope this helps.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:06:00 AM
Hi Wildcard
Sorry, didn't want to cause a panic, but certainly in my horses case I think there might be a connection (but I would love to be proven wrong) I sort of work on the theory that if those glands are swollen then other parts of her body are swollen too eg the laminae in the foot therefore laminitis.
When she first had the swollen glands there were a lot of creeping buttercups in my fields. I have had them sprayed and most of them have gone now (over 3 years) but still some left. I wondered if she had an allergy to buttercups?
I have had two vets look at her glands but neither were at all concerned (and on both occasions she had laminitis)
Someone suggested to me that it could be a reaction to protein? Not sure about that, perhaps someone else could enlighten me!!
I have also heard of it being an allergic reaction to dust that clears throughout the day, but my horse has the swollen glands all summer.
Hope I haven't alarmed you too much and as I say, I would love to think there isn't a connection (ie that the vets are right)
Ally (North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Wildcard
Date : 13.02.03 9:08:00 AM
Thanks Ally
I have made contact with a homeopathic vet about her glands, she does have a tendancy to get too fat.
Anyway the vet is going to do a work up on her and we'll see how that goes, I'll mention it to her and see what she says - it won't be until next week but I'll post back on here then
W x
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : liz-horsetlak
Date : 13.02.03 9:10:00 AM
Ally, Wildcard....
Yes the galnds can swell due to high protein so in a lot of horses this is not too much of an issue.
Ally, are you aware that buttercups are toxic to horses in the same ways as bracken
They do have to eat an awful lot to be very ill but in sensitive/high risk horses this can be enough of a trigger factor.
Clover is another to really avoid too......
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:17:00 AM
Hi Liz-horse talk
Thankyou for all that information, its really helpful and I will check out the web sites.
Before I bought the horse she had had a foal and the vet wondered if she had had laminitis as a result of that. The woman I bought her off didn't tell me she had had laminitis and I have asked her since and she has denied it.
She does put weight on easily but the first spring after I bought her she wasn't overweight but still got it.
I do restrict her grazing but she came out of last winter carrying too much weight (she had been on ad-lib hay out 24/7). This year I have stabled her every night so I can really monitor what she is eating. She looks about a quarter less body weight than last year!!!!
I have read recently that sulpur can be beneficial. Have you heard that?
Thankyou for all the info, Ally(North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally (North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:26:00 AM
Liz, I had heard that they were toxic, but didn't realise as much as bracken!!!! I only have a small patch left but if she has a violent reaction to them it doesn't matter how little I've got does it!!
She doesn't get any concentrate feed so wouldn't be getting protein that way and fields don't have high level of clover (hardly any, if any at all) Grazing always looks quite poor, heavy clay soil, our farm is high on North Yorkshire moors)
Thanks again for your good advice. Ally (NY)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally (North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:28:00 AM
Wildcard, that would be really interesting thankyou.
Ally(North Yorkshire)x
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:09:00 PM
I didnt realise we could now get Founderguard in the UK - I'm presuming this is the australian one if so I thought the EC wouldnt let us bring it in and it was a banned substance
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Caroline
Date : 13.02.03 1:16:00 PM
Our littlies have always done well with Dodson & Horrell L-Mix and Wendells Laminix (herbal mixture). We found that this made a huge difference to our Shetland, in particular. Constitutional homoeopathic treatment will help to strengthen your mare so that she is much less prone to laminitis, and you can use homoeopathy very effectively for any acute attacks (but you need to know what you're doing, so consult a hom vet!). I was also told that sanctuaries give the horses with laminitis Lo-Salt, which is supposed to help them.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Lou
Date : 13.02.03 1:17:00 PM
My friend uses Founderguard.
I am not sure but I think she had to obtain a licsense to feed it? She has relatives in Oz where she can get it cheap. I think though that it is available here now and don't quote me but I think it was 199 for a tub. She swears by it though as her pony had chronic laminitis.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:23:00 PM
OMG - that much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how long does that last?? forever i would hope :-)))
I'd like to use it to prevent laminitis in the pony i have at the minute as i'm sure she will be high risk in the state she is in, and just as she starts to get better the spring grass will be through and it will be the first grass she will ahve had in a long time!!!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Lou
Date : 13.02.03 1:26:00 PM
Also heard that Aloe Vera juice is good as it detoxes the body.
There are loads of supplements about but I have never had cause to you them thankfully.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Clare
Date : 13.02.03 1:32:00 PM
On the subject of buttercups - does anyone know what to use to get rid of them? Bought something from the local supplier last year and used it as stated and ended up killing the grass as well!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:35:00 PM
a few years ago my farrier said buttercups were only a problem in large does... i looked over at my field and it was glowing yellow.... hmmmmmmmmmmm
Yard owner at the time refused to spray =- well refused to do anything...
all weedkillers will kill grass - its a herbicide!! wont it??
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From :
Date : 13.02.03 1:50:00 PM
Grazon 90 doesn't kill grass but does kill docks and buttercup I think def docks. I have a horse allergic to buttercups who comes out in terrible sunbirm if the pollen so much as touches his skin even out hacking.
Founder guard is available on licience and is the only effective preventative for grass and feed induced laminitis but the Yea Sacc and probitic idea is an interesting one as thats more or less what founderguard is but kills specific bacteria in the gut where a probiotic would encourage teh good ones and crowd out the bad ones Hmm interesting Worth a go!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:54:00 PM
right then - probiotic it is then!!!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From :
Date : 13.02.03 2:01:00 PM
sorry i didn't worth that very well
Founderguard kills nasty lactic acid producing bacteria
Probiotics such as yea sacc encourage the good to crowd out the bad
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 2:02:00 PM
i understood it - are u the nutrition lady???
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 13.02.03 2:40:00 PM
Most probiotics are actually supplying lactic acid bacteria. Those are the exact same bacteria controlled by Founderguard (a selective anti-biotic). You can work out the implication I am sure - feeding a laminitic horse the very same bacteria believed to cause laminitis may well not be a good idea.
Yea-Sacc on the other hand will increase the number of bacteria that actually utilise lactic acid, help prevent the hindgut get more acidic if a load of sugar does get in there.
It is the only type of probiotic I would recommend for laminitics for that reason.
I believe Restore to be very good for optimising liver and digestive function too, which may be very relevant IMO.
At some point I would get a hormonal blood work up done on any horse who gets laminitis, an insulin and glucose at least. If there are abnormalities, there is a lot that can be done.
Jackie
groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 8:43:00 AM
One of my horses is prone to laminitis and I am really determined that she doesn't get it this year. I have really been watching her weight this winter ans so far (touch wood) she isn't carrying too much weight and hasn't got a cresty neck. (she's 16hh cob x TB? puts weight on easily)
My question is, what supplements have you tried that have really worked in keeping the dreaded laminitis at bay?
I'd like to start giving her something now before the spring has arrived to build up her resistance.
Coincidentally, her glands where her face meets the neck always swell up from late spring to late summer. My vet says its nothing to worry about, but I can't help but think that there is a connection. Would something like echinacea (sp?) help to boost her immune system?
Thankyou in anticipation of any replies.
Ally(North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Wildcard
Date : 13.02.03 8:54:00 AM
Hi Ally
Not much help here but you have worried me a bit, my horses parotid glands also swelled up a couple of days ago - do you really think there is a link?
They have never done so before so I'm starting to get a bit worried.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 13.02.03 8:55:00 AM
Hi Ally....
Is your horse prone due to feed related problems ??
If so would recommend you talk to vet and/or Lam Trust about the use of Founderguard. I have a couple of freinds use this with great success.
Vet Peter Brown has also set up a website with more info - www.foundergaurd.com
You still need to keep on top of the managemnet side of things but it is very effective.
The only problem one friend had was that he runs an organic farm so had to seek additional advice before he could use it as could have affected his farm status due to the contents.
As for other items..... a lot depends upon the cause behind the illness but as a general rule this is what I use for my high risk mare and other natives.
Naf D-Tox and Yea-Sacc - at high doasge level during all high risk periods.
Cut, dried wilted nettles as they contain certian minerals and vitamins that are very beneficial.
Hawthorn - fortunately the field has a large amount of hawthorn hedging so they help themselves but you can get mixes from Hilton Herbs.
Free access to Salt and Mineral Blocks at all times. Iodised salt is best if you can get it.
In tha past I have used Farriers Formula but found I only really need it during the winter if things get really bad. Robert Eustace also only tends to recommend winter too unless for specific reasons.
When the causes are more hormone or insulin related then there are other products that can help such as magnesium oxide etc. To explore that avenu more I would suggest you take a look at the Cushings DG on Yahoo www.onelist.com/community/EquineCushings
You could also try:
groups.yahoo.com/group/laminitis
Hope this helps.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:06:00 AM
Hi Wildcard
Sorry, didn't want to cause a panic, but certainly in my horses case I think there might be a connection (but I would love to be proven wrong) I sort of work on the theory that if those glands are swollen then other parts of her body are swollen too eg the laminae in the foot therefore laminitis.
When she first had the swollen glands there were a lot of creeping buttercups in my fields. I have had them sprayed and most of them have gone now (over 3 years) but still some left. I wondered if she had an allergy to buttercups?
I have had two vets look at her glands but neither were at all concerned (and on both occasions she had laminitis)
Someone suggested to me that it could be a reaction to protein? Not sure about that, perhaps someone else could enlighten me!!
I have also heard of it being an allergic reaction to dust that clears throughout the day, but my horse has the swollen glands all summer.
Hope I haven't alarmed you too much and as I say, I would love to think there isn't a connection (ie that the vets are right)
Ally (North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Wildcard
Date : 13.02.03 9:08:00 AM
Thanks Ally
I have made contact with a homeopathic vet about her glands, she does have a tendancy to get too fat.
Anyway the vet is going to do a work up on her and we'll see how that goes, I'll mention it to her and see what she says - it won't be until next week but I'll post back on here then
W x
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : liz-horsetlak
Date : 13.02.03 9:10:00 AM
Ally, Wildcard....
Yes the galnds can swell due to high protein so in a lot of horses this is not too much of an issue.
Ally, are you aware that buttercups are toxic to horses in the same ways as bracken
They do have to eat an awful lot to be very ill but in sensitive/high risk horses this can be enough of a trigger factor.Clover is another to really avoid too......
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally(North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:17:00 AM
Hi Liz-horse talk
Thankyou for all that information, its really helpful and I will check out the web sites.
Before I bought the horse she had had a foal and the vet wondered if she had had laminitis as a result of that. The woman I bought her off didn't tell me she had had laminitis and I have asked her since and she has denied it.
She does put weight on easily but the first spring after I bought her she wasn't overweight but still got it.
I do restrict her grazing but she came out of last winter carrying too much weight (she had been on ad-lib hay out 24/7). This year I have stabled her every night so I can really monitor what she is eating. She looks about a quarter less body weight than last year!!!!
I have read recently that sulpur can be beneficial. Have you heard that?
Thankyou for all the info, Ally(North Yorkshire)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally (North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:26:00 AM
Liz, I had heard that they were toxic, but didn't realise as much as bracken!!!! I only have a small patch left but if she has a violent reaction to them it doesn't matter how little I've got does it!!
She doesn't get any concentrate feed so wouldn't be getting protein that way and fields don't have high level of clover (hardly any, if any at all) Grazing always looks quite poor, heavy clay soil, our farm is high on North Yorkshire moors)
Thanks again for your good advice. Ally (NY)
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Ally (North Yorkshire)
Date : 13.02.03 9:28:00 AM
Wildcard, that would be really interesting thankyou.
Ally(North Yorkshire)x
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:09:00 PM
I didnt realise we could now get Founderguard in the UK - I'm presuming this is the australian one
if so I thought the EC wouldnt let us bring it in and it was a banned substanceSubject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Caroline
Date : 13.02.03 1:16:00 PM
Our littlies have always done well with Dodson & Horrell L-Mix and Wendells Laminix (herbal mixture). We found that this made a huge difference to our Shetland, in particular. Constitutional homoeopathic treatment will help to strengthen your mare so that she is much less prone to laminitis, and you can use homoeopathy very effectively for any acute attacks (but you need to know what you're doing, so consult a hom vet!). I was also told that sanctuaries give the horses with laminitis Lo-Salt, which is supposed to help them.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Lou
Date : 13.02.03 1:17:00 PM
My friend uses Founderguard.
I am not sure but I think she had to obtain a licsense to feed it? She has relatives in Oz where she can get it cheap. I think though that it is available here now and don't quote me but I think it was 199 for a tub. She swears by it though as her pony had chronic laminitis.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:23:00 PM
OMG - that much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how long does that last?
? forever i would hope :-)))I'd like to use it to prevent laminitis in the pony i have at the minute as i'm sure she will be high risk in the state she is in, and just as she starts to get better the spring grass will be through and it will be the first grass she will ahve had in a long time!!!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Lou
Date : 13.02.03 1:26:00 PM
Also heard that Aloe Vera juice is good as it detoxes the body.
There are loads of supplements about but I have never had cause to you them thankfully.
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : Clare
Date : 13.02.03 1:32:00 PM
On the subject of buttercups - does anyone know what to use to get rid of them? Bought something from the local supplier last year and used it as stated and ended up killing the grass as well!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:35:00 PM
a few years ago my farrier said buttercups were only a problem in large does... i looked over at my field and it was glowing yellow.... hmmmmmmmmmmm
Yard owner at the time refused to spray =- well refused to do anything...
all weedkillers will kill grass - its a herbicide!! wont it??
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From :
Date : 13.02.03 1:50:00 PM
Grazon 90 doesn't kill grass but does kill docks and buttercup I think def docks. I have a horse allergic to buttercups who comes out in terrible sunbirm if the pollen so much as touches his skin even out hacking.
Founder guard is available on licience and is the only effective preventative for grass and feed induced laminitis but the Yea Sacc and probitic idea is an interesting one as thats more or less what founderguard is but kills specific bacteria in the gut where a probiotic would encourage teh good ones and crowd out the bad ones Hmm interesting Worth a go!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 1:54:00 PM
right then - probiotic it is then!!!
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From :
Date : 13.02.03 2:01:00 PM
sorry i didn't worth that very well
Founderguard kills nasty lactic acid producing bacteria
Probiotics such as yea sacc encourage the good to crowd out the bad
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : pickles
Date : 13.02.03 2:02:00 PM
i understood it - are u the nutrition lady???
Subject : re:- Supplements for laminitis prone horses
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 13.02.03 2:40:00 PM
Most probiotics are actually supplying lactic acid bacteria. Those are the exact same bacteria controlled by Founderguard (a selective anti-biotic). You can work out the implication I am sure - feeding a laminitic horse the very same bacteria believed to cause laminitis may well not be a good idea.
Yea-Sacc on the other hand will increase the number of bacteria that actually utilise lactic acid, help prevent the hindgut get more acidic if a load of sugar does get in there.
It is the only type of probiotic I would recommend for laminitics for that reason.
I believe Restore to be very good for optimising liver and digestive function too, which may be very relevant IMO.
At some point I would get a hormonal blood work up done on any horse who gets laminitis, an insulin and glucose at least. If there are abnormalities, there is a lot that can be done.
Jackie
groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse