Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 13:54:18 GMT 1
Subject : For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 11.07.05 2:57:00 PM
www.laminitisresearch.org/
New Laminitis research website, very good with downloads and good research and recovery information.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 11.07.05 11:38:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 12.07.05 11:06:00 PM
just reading this ..... although it is VERY detailed and will take a while to digest it all !
Have never had a horse of my own with laminitis .... till today !!!! Despite NO identifiable risk factors Bonney acutely lame this morning at the stage of paddling and noticable in lamanitic stance .... not happy to walk at all !!!!
was perfectly happy yesterday when farrier trimming feet ...... it came on that fast !!!!! Vet msytefied at why and can make no reccomendations to change management at all once she is better .......
I want to read up and see if it is anything to do with the unusual weather pattern ..... vet says that the grass "salts" might be different
? Any ideas anyone?
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 13.07.05 3:05:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 13.07.05 3:48:00 PM
"was perfectly happy yesterday when farrier trimming feet ...... it came on that fast !!!!! "
Err, could she be footsore from the trim being a little vigorous? Does she have any thrush, if yes and her heels were taken down so she's got her frogs in contact with the ground, that would do it.....just guessing of course.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : sophie
Date : 14.07.05 9:53:00 AM
Hi Laura . ..
Your vet might be talking about calcium / magnesium balance. Apparently low magnesium levels can help to induce laminitis so a mineral supplement can help if this is the case. I havent read much about this yet but there is some research online if you are interested. i am slightly concerned about feeding a specific magnesium supplement as the levels in the grass fluctuate and so i thought maybe that might cause other imbalances?
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 14.07.05 12:21:00 AM
That depends on the rest of your horses diet - it's always a good idea to analyse the hay or pasture. Magnesium should be kept in balance with calcium and phosphorous, and for the average laminitic eating hay with maybe some alfalfa and beet pulp, his entire diet is likely to be calcium high with a shortage of magnesium and possibly phosphorous.
If your horse ate lots of oats and bran it would be the other way round - but few laminitics would survive on that!
Jackie
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : sophie
Date : 14.07.05 3:02:00 PM
How would i go about testing the grass / hay and my pony for mineral content!?
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Julia
Date : 14.07.05 4:42:00 PM
Its common for an attack to come on after the farrier has been, I am not sure what the trigger is but it happened with mine and a friends & the vets confirmed its a trigger. We still aren't sure why ours got it this year after never having it before. He has exercise and careful management. He is much more lame in one foreleg than any other foot and xrays show there is a tiny amount of pedal bone change in one leg only. Such a horrible thing.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 14.07.05 6:12:00 PM
Thanks for all the comments
Farrier seemed to trim just to his usual level and Bonney is barefoot with very strong feet .,,,. she did have the start of thush a week or so ago but we nipped that in the bud right away. No sign of it now and my farrier is a very forthright man who would have mentioned it LOL
thanks sophie
I share your thought on giving supplements of a specific mineral ....the fluctuations in the pasture make it difficult to judge what and when to give.
The pasture they are on is not lush grass and has lots of herbs added ...and the field has hedgerow around it where they can help themselves. We encourage things like dandelion and nettles, a few thistles, camomile, clivers etc They have no additional feed in the summer months apart from some hay if they are in the yard for more than an hour or two. They have access to a general mineral lick and a salt lick. Oh and the pasture was fertilised in the spring with chicken manure to add the magnesium to the soil.
Am I reading your post right Jackie ... could it be a magnesium and phosphorus shortage ?
would the local agricultural college be able to test hay /grazing do you think ?
It does seem weird Julia that trimming would set it off when she is 14 and its never happened before ....... vet did say that it just might be a combination of a set of events rather than just one trigger .....
I have seen cases where the cause it vey easy to identify .... and changes can be made to management ......
Just wanted to identify anything I would need to do to prevent it ever happening again to Bonney !!!
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 14.07.05 7:47:00 PM
Several companies can test hay for minerals - though it is actually cheaper to send it to the US, you can contact the ADAS labs -www.directlabs.co.uk about hay or grass.
Most of the feed companies will arrange it for you too.
Grass can of course fluctuate widely with the weather and season, so it is often simpler just to supplement. The one mineral just about all the supplements on the market are short of, in the light of recent findings with regard to metabolic syndrome and laminitis, is magnesium. Horses on restricted grazing will need extra antioxidants too.
NB Chicken manure I believe is extremely high in potassium, which depresses magnesium absorption.
Jackie
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 14.07.05 10:38:00 PM
thanks Jackie
glad you said that about the chicken maure Jackie .... the reason we used it was that I read that it was better for horse pasture !!!! in that it added magnesium.
mmmmmmmm more reading then !!!!
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Jackie
Date : 15.07.05 0:45:00 AM
According to the table on this page it is highest in potash, not potassium, and lowest in Mg.
I did see one comment that over application may cause high potassium, and the only explanation one farmer could give me for a very high potassium on a hay analysis was the application of chicken manure. Maybe he applied too much.
Jackie
From :
Date : 11.07.05 2:57:00 PM
www.laminitisresearch.org/
New Laminitis research website, very good with downloads and good research and recovery information.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 11.07.05 11:38:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 12.07.05 11:06:00 PM
just reading this ..... although it is VERY detailed and will take a while to digest it all !
Have never had a horse of my own with laminitis .... till today !!!! Despite NO identifiable risk factors Bonney acutely lame this morning at the stage of paddling and noticable in lamanitic stance .... not happy to walk at all !!!!
was perfectly happy yesterday when farrier trimming feet ...... it came on that fast !!!!! Vet msytefied at why and can make no reccomendations to change management at all once she is better .......
I want to read up and see if it is anything to do with the unusual weather pattern ..... vet says that the grass "salts" might be different
? Any ideas anyone?Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 13.07.05 3:05:00 PM
up
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From :
Date : 13.07.05 3:48:00 PM
"was perfectly happy yesterday when farrier trimming feet ...... it came on that fast !!!!! "
Err, could she be footsore from the trim being a little vigorous? Does she have any thrush, if yes and her heels were taken down so she's got her frogs in contact with the ground, that would do it.....just guessing of course.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : sophie
Date : 14.07.05 9:53:00 AM
Hi Laura . ..
Your vet might be talking about calcium / magnesium balance. Apparently low magnesium levels can help to induce laminitis so a mineral supplement can help if this is the case. I havent read much about this yet but there is some research online if you are interested. i am slightly concerned about feeding a specific magnesium supplement as the levels in the grass fluctuate and so i thought maybe that might cause other imbalances?
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 14.07.05 12:21:00 AM
That depends on the rest of your horses diet - it's always a good idea to analyse the hay or pasture. Magnesium should be kept in balance with calcium and phosphorous, and for the average laminitic eating hay with maybe some alfalfa and beet pulp, his entire diet is likely to be calcium high with a shortage of magnesium and possibly phosphorous.
If your horse ate lots of oats and bran it would be the other way round - but few laminitics would survive on that!
Jackie
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : sophie
Date : 14.07.05 3:02:00 PM
How would i go about testing the grass / hay and my pony for mineral content!?
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Julia
Date : 14.07.05 4:42:00 PM
Its common for an attack to come on after the farrier has been, I am not sure what the trigger is but it happened with mine and a friends & the vets confirmed its a trigger. We still aren't sure why ours got it this year after never having it before. He has exercise and careful management. He is much more lame in one foreleg than any other foot and xrays show there is a tiny amount of pedal bone change in one leg only. Such a horrible thing.
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 14.07.05 6:12:00 PM
Thanks for all the comments
Farrier seemed to trim just to his usual level and Bonney is barefoot with very strong feet .,,,. she did have the start of thush a week or so ago but we nipped that in the bud right away. No sign of it now and my farrier is a very forthright man who would have mentioned it LOL
thanks sophie
I share your thought on giving supplements of a specific mineral ....the fluctuations in the pasture make it difficult to judge what and when to give.
The pasture they are on is not lush grass and has lots of herbs added ...and the field has hedgerow around it where they can help themselves. We encourage things like dandelion and nettles, a few thistles, camomile, clivers etc They have no additional feed in the summer months apart from some hay if they are in the yard for more than an hour or two. They have access to a general mineral lick and a salt lick. Oh and the pasture was fertilised in the spring with chicken manure to add the magnesium to the soil.
Am I reading your post right Jackie ... could it be a magnesium and phosphorus shortage ?
would the local agricultural college be able to test hay /grazing do you think ?
It does seem weird Julia that trimming would set it off when she is 14 and its never happened before ....... vet did say that it just might be a combination of a set of events rather than just one trigger .....
I have seen cases where the cause it vey easy to identify .... and changes can be made to management ......
Just wanted to identify anything I would need to do to prevent it ever happening again to Bonney !!!
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 14.07.05 7:47:00 PM
Several companies can test hay for minerals - though it is actually cheaper to send it to the US, you can contact the ADAS labs -www.directlabs.co.uk about hay or grass.
Most of the feed companies will arrange it for you too.
Grass can of course fluctuate widely with the weather and season, so it is often simpler just to supplement. The one mineral just about all the supplements on the market are short of, in the light of recent findings with regard to metabolic syndrome and laminitis, is magnesium. Horses on restricted grazing will need extra antioxidants too.
NB Chicken manure I believe is extremely high in potassium, which depresses magnesium absorption.
Jackie
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Laura (Taz)
Date : 14.07.05 10:38:00 PM
thanks Jackie
glad you said that about the chicken maure Jackie .... the reason we used it was that I read that it was better for horse pasture !!!! in that it added magnesium.
mmmmmmmm more reading then !!!!
Subject : re:- For all those with Laminitics & Cushings
From : Jackie
Date : 15.07.05 0:45:00 AM
According to the table on this page it is highest in potash, not potassium, and lowest in Mg.
I did see one comment that over application may cause high potassium, and the only explanation one farmer could give me for a very high potassium on a hay analysis was the application of chicken manure. Maybe he applied too much.
Jackie