Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 10:31:36 GMT 1
Subject : 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : PP
Date : 04.05.05 11:25:00 AM
Hi all,
Well, I spoke too soon as i had never had a pony with the dreaded L, until..
Yesterday my Shetland came down with laminitis. I arrived at the field and he was lagging behind the horses as they walked to the gate.. I then noticed he was very pottery and clearly lame on his front feet.
There is heat in his foot and I could feel his pulse slightly.. I called my farrier who has confirmed this and it is not a mechanical form (his feet are in good shape), so I know it is digestive related.
He is now in a 15 ft square pen in the field.. a churned up part so there is minimal grass.. he was a feral pony and has never been in a stable (which would freak him out completely, also, we don’t have stabling nearby).. the section is half covered in hay and the other half is mud… he then has a hedge behind him for shelter. We have kept him occupied by giving him twigs to eat, salt lick and scattering happy hoof in his hay.
This morning he was walking slightly better, but not enough improvement for me to be happy with it.
How long do I keep him in his “pen”? He has tried to break out yet.. and seems quite happy in himself.. the other horses are in the same field and I have notice that they each spend time next to the pen, so he is not isolated..
He is being fed yea sacc and just happy hoof for the time being and is picking at the hay.
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated!
PS: any support would be gratefully appreciated as i ahve had this pony for 2 years now (never had laminitis) and last spring we were on dairy pasture and he was absolutely fine.. this year he is on straight grass (no clover) and it is very short... i just dont understand it.. could it be because the grass is stressed.. or perhaps because all he was eating was new growth?
I am guttered that my poor pony is suffering.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 04.05.05 11:34:00 AM
Hugs, its horrid seeing them uncomfortable
(
Do you soak the hay, it helps to wash out sugars.
The weather has gone weird again, overly hot tonnes of rain, I think the poor horses are struggling trying to change with the climate nowadays. JA Taylor is a good source of info, also look up all threads begining with lami, you will get heaps of help and support.
Chin up hun.)
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Val (toons&co)
Date : 04.05.05 11:46:00 AM
Hi PP, sorry you have to deal with this too. Jaz has had her first signs of lami ever this year too so there might be something in this year's growth. She is at risk though, being metabolic, so I was expecting it sooner or later. Grass growth has been very slow in April and then it's suddenly coming out like mad after a few warmer days. Maybe the suddenness is the key here?
I'm not sure myself how long they need to be off the grass but was told to wait for the grass growth to stabilise, which makes sense. In the mean time, the small section without grass and plenty of hay is more or less what I do too, although I did keep her in for the past two nights but I'm lucky to be able to do that.
Also, you may be able to use a muzzle when re-introducing? That's something I can't do with Jaz.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : PP
Date : 04.05.05 12:04:00 AM
Thanks Katie and Val!
He has a bed of hay to sleep on and also munch if he wants.. it got wet during the night and today the hay is dried out.. the monkey is also weeing in it! I will leave the bed of hay until it gets manky and keep taking the soiled bits.. then I can just top it up when needed and he also has another pile which he is eating.. I will soak this hay and perhaps make a haynet stand for him by banging in a post? Of course a lot lower.
I completely understand that shorter grass means the new stuff growing would be high in sugars.. this is probably the reason why he has got it as prior to this I was switching them all daily between 2 small sections and so, all he was eating was new grass. Ok, so grass that has been left to grow for a bit would be better for him wouldn’t it?? About 4 inches?
Problem is.. I only have a huge field left with long grass and the reason why it is long is because I fertilised it! There is no way I am letting him on there and now am very worried about my other horses going on it..
It looks like until the weather is much hotter and the grass has stopped growing at this mad rate, he will be in his pen. I am going to look into putting up a temporary set of fencing panels so he has a physical shelter as well..
Has anyone any other ideas?
He has always been a pony that has just been fine.. he isn’t even overweight!
I could muzzel him for periods, but, like i said before, it is difficult as he was feral!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 04.05.05 1:11:00 PM
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 04.05.05 4:27:00 PM
I think you are doing good by him already, getting him off lush grass is the most important thing, soak hay, ring vet and farrier to tell them whats happening.
Happy hoof is ok for laminitics, you coul try putting Lamiprone in his feed (global Herbs)Steve, Global Herbs vet is a nice guy, you can ring him for a chat, also the Lamanitic society have a web site with heaps of ideas.)
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : lucy j
Date : 04.05.05 4:43:00 PM
we had to keep my old tb and yo old shetland in a dirt paddock all spring, it was sectioned off from the main field and if we even let them out for 1 day they would come down with it again. we kept them in the paddock from april through till july then again late august/september when the grass changes again. the only way my boy would get sound again was to put him on a deep bed of woodchips for a few days, yes he hated it, but it was for his own good.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Pen
Date : 04.05.05 8:43:00 PM
Fertilizing your field may have caused or contributed to your current laminitis problem depending on what you used. I avoid anything intended for commercial use it produces the 'wrong' type of growth for horses. I'm currently trying to get some calcified seaweed as supplied by Simple Systems. The Global Herbs detox product for lamanitics too. Hopefully you have nipped this episode of laminitis in the bud with your regime.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : oboe
Date : 04.05.05 9:46:00 PM
have you rung your vet cos they give the best advice
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 04.05.05 9:49:00 PM
I agree with oboe above. Speak to your vet and pref. get them to visit. You could get a hundred opinions on here, some of which would be good, some not and some people just guess!
None of us can see your pony so its all guesswork so for something as serious as laminitis please get your vet out, cos it can be agony for your little chap!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 05.05.05 1:20:00 AM
Commercial fertilisers do not necessarily produce 'the wrong type of growth' for laminitics. On the contrary, grass stressed by LACK of nitrogen can actually be higher in sugars, so people are wrong to imply that fertilisation is bad.
Generally, the more grass growth there is in any given period of sun, the less % sugar there is in it. That's why grass that has STOPPED growing because of frost is more dangerous, and why, though the grass grew like mad, we saw very little laminitis in April. It was dull and mild, so there was lots of growth but not much sugar was made.
Horse pasture does not want excess fertiliser obviously, but it does need ADEQUATE nutrients for healthy grass growth, both nitrogen and minerals. You don't get healthy horses out of unhealthy pasture.
I believe organic or semi-organics are best because they produce a slower release of nutrients to sustain even growth year round, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater - grass needs nutrients.
Jackie
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : OP
Date : 05.05.05 1:51:00 PM
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies – much appreciated.
The heat is still in his foot, but pulse has gone and he is walking a lot better. The vet is coming up at 4pm today.. so we will see what he says. Will let you know..
I will also ask the vet about the situation i am facing..
I don’t know if i made it clear, but, in the field they are in now (summer grazing).. it is split into two main areas.. one area is about 1 acre (NOT fertilised) and the other 2 acres (fertilised).
The 1 acre patch is split into two and is well grazed, but growing as we rest each part. This is where the horses are now and i am moving them between these two areas.. as well as giving ad lib hay. This is also the area where our shetland’s pen is.
This is the area where my shetland got laminitis.. there are 2 other ponies and 2 horses on this patch.. so, as you can imagine there is not long lush grass... short and sparse...
The 2 acre patch is what was fertilised and the grass has gone mad.. long and lush – they haven’t grazed this yet since we fertilised 3 weeks ago... now, i am in a situation where they are either on short and sparse with hay.. or long and lush fertilised ??
Obviously my shetland is remaining in his pen until he has compeltely recovered, but my other 4.. they are all natives and in the at risk category (ok to fat condition)..
Do i keep them in the short and sparse grass for the time being and keep feeding hay.. wait until the grass growth stabilises ?
Start strip grazing now on the long stuff ? Which will make my good doers fatter.. maybe more susceptible to laminitis ?
I could always keep the horses on the short stuff and take a crop of hay off the long stuff.. ?? Maybe ?
Any advice would be gratefullly appreciated and don’t worry.. i know no discussion forum replaces the advice of a veterinary surgeon. However, i do appreciate that there are years of advice and experience on this forum..
x
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : OP
Date : 05.05.05 8:41:00 PM
Just to let those who posted know that my vet came up today and was pleased with what we are doing..
He said we cant do anything more and it is a case of keeping him in his "mud pen" and feeding hay for the summer.. and then keep in it again in the Autumn. Bless my little chap! He is walking a lot better and vet said there is no lasting damage done.. phew.
Have collected lots more branches tonight off a poplar and willow tree, so shetland will be pleased tomorrow..
Vet also had a examination down there.. and it looks like his testicles are appearing.. yay!
Will keep you posted!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : KM
Date : 06.05.05 9:11:00 AM
Glad everything is working out.
Just try and keep him occupied with interesting things like toys etc.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 06.05.05 4:45:00 PM
really p;eased)
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Healthy Horse
Date : 06.05.05 5:02:00 PM
Hi OP
Glad things appear to be getting better! Try to keep his fibre intake up, this will prevent his hindgut becoming acidic and leaking more toxins into his system - soaked hay is brilliant for this. I would also consider feeding him a supplement which contains broad spectrum vit and mins and a probiotic - my personal favourite is Antilam as this also contains a foot supplement to promote good regrowth, the probiotic will helps keep the hindgut moving and the vits and mins will help support his alround system so he can cope better. I fear that you will have to keep him on what amounts to a mud paddock whilst the grass is like it is at the moment, and you are right about your other ponies too, watch them carefully. You could consider a greenguard muzzle too. Keeping everything cross for you!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Vic
Date : 06.05.05 9:43:00 PM
It's 20 years since we had a little section A go down with the dreaded L. Cut lots of nettles, let them dry and feed daily. It may sound ridulous but it's an old fashioned and effective remedy. Obviously grass is out for the time being. I'm sure there are many other remedies as suggested above of course. Good luck.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 06.05.05 10:29:00 PM
Sorry to but in on this thread but does the greenguard muzzle stay on ? I have a nylon type muzzle and my pony gets it straight off. I am going to get her a field safe headcollar to help keep the muzzle where it should be.
From : PP
Date : 04.05.05 11:25:00 AM
Hi all,
Well, I spoke too soon as i had never had a pony with the dreaded L, until..
Yesterday my Shetland came down with laminitis. I arrived at the field and he was lagging behind the horses as they walked to the gate.. I then noticed he was very pottery and clearly lame on his front feet.
There is heat in his foot and I could feel his pulse slightly.. I called my farrier who has confirmed this and it is not a mechanical form (his feet are in good shape), so I know it is digestive related.
He is now in a 15 ft square pen in the field.. a churned up part so there is minimal grass.. he was a feral pony and has never been in a stable (which would freak him out completely, also, we don’t have stabling nearby).. the section is half covered in hay and the other half is mud… he then has a hedge behind him for shelter. We have kept him occupied by giving him twigs to eat, salt lick and scattering happy hoof in his hay.
This morning he was walking slightly better, but not enough improvement for me to be happy with it.
How long do I keep him in his “pen”? He has tried to break out yet.. and seems quite happy in himself.. the other horses are in the same field and I have notice that they each spend time next to the pen, so he is not isolated..
He is being fed yea sacc and just happy hoof for the time being and is picking at the hay.
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated!
PS: any support would be gratefully appreciated as i ahve had this pony for 2 years now (never had laminitis) and last spring we were on dairy pasture and he was absolutely fine.. this year he is on straight grass (no clover) and it is very short... i just dont understand it.. could it be because the grass is stressed.. or perhaps because all he was eating was new growth?
I am guttered that my poor pony is suffering.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 04.05.05 11:34:00 AM
Hugs, its horrid seeing them uncomfortable
(Do you soak the hay, it helps to wash out sugars.
The weather has gone weird again, overly hot tonnes of rain, I think the poor horses are struggling trying to change with the climate nowadays. JA Taylor is a good source of info, also look up all threads begining with lami, you will get heaps of help and support.
Chin up hun.
) Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Val (toons&co)
Date : 04.05.05 11:46:00 AM
Hi PP, sorry you have to deal with this too. Jaz has had her first signs of lami ever this year too so there might be something in this year's growth. She is at risk though, being metabolic, so I was expecting it sooner or later. Grass growth has been very slow in April and then it's suddenly coming out like mad after a few warmer days. Maybe the suddenness is the key here?
I'm not sure myself how long they need to be off the grass but was told to wait for the grass growth to stabilise, which makes sense. In the mean time, the small section without grass and plenty of hay is more or less what I do too, although I did keep her in for the past two nights but I'm lucky to be able to do that.
Also, you may be able to use a muzzle when re-introducing? That's something I can't do with Jaz.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : PP
Date : 04.05.05 12:04:00 AM
Thanks Katie and Val!
He has a bed of hay to sleep on and also munch if he wants.. it got wet during the night and today the hay is dried out.. the monkey is also weeing in it! I will leave the bed of hay until it gets manky and keep taking the soiled bits.. then I can just top it up when needed and he also has another pile which he is eating.. I will soak this hay and perhaps make a haynet stand for him by banging in a post? Of course a lot lower.
I completely understand that shorter grass means the new stuff growing would be high in sugars.. this is probably the reason why he has got it as prior to this I was switching them all daily between 2 small sections and so, all he was eating was new grass. Ok, so grass that has been left to grow for a bit would be better for him wouldn’t it?? About 4 inches?
Problem is.. I only have a huge field left with long grass and the reason why it is long is because I fertilised it! There is no way I am letting him on there and now am very worried about my other horses going on it..
It looks like until the weather is much hotter and the grass has stopped growing at this mad rate, he will be in his pen. I am going to look into putting up a temporary set of fencing panels so he has a physical shelter as well..
Has anyone any other ideas?
He has always been a pony that has just been fine.. he isn’t even overweight!
I could muzzel him for periods, but, like i said before, it is difficult as he was feral!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 04.05.05 1:11:00 PM
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 04.05.05 4:27:00 PM
I think you are doing good by him already, getting him off lush grass is the most important thing, soak hay, ring vet and farrier to tell them whats happening.
Happy hoof is ok for laminitics, you coul try putting Lamiprone in his feed (global Herbs)Steve, Global Herbs vet is a nice guy, you can ring him for a chat, also the Lamanitic society have a web site with heaps of ideas.
) Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : lucy j
Date : 04.05.05 4:43:00 PM
we had to keep my old tb and yo old shetland in a dirt paddock all spring, it was sectioned off from the main field and if we even let them out for 1 day they would come down with it again. we kept them in the paddock from april through till july then again late august/september when the grass changes again. the only way my boy would get sound again was to put him on a deep bed of woodchips for a few days, yes he hated it, but it was for his own good.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Pen
Date : 04.05.05 8:43:00 PM
Fertilizing your field may have caused or contributed to your current laminitis problem depending on what you used. I avoid anything intended for commercial use it produces the 'wrong' type of growth for horses. I'm currently trying to get some calcified seaweed as supplied by Simple Systems. The Global Herbs detox product for lamanitics too. Hopefully you have nipped this episode of laminitis in the bud with your regime.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : oboe
Date : 04.05.05 9:46:00 PM
have you rung your vet cos they give the best advice
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 04.05.05 9:49:00 PM
I agree with oboe above. Speak to your vet and pref. get them to visit. You could get a hundred opinions on here, some of which would be good, some not and some people just guess!
None of us can see your pony so its all guesswork so for something as serious as laminitis please get your vet out, cos it can be agony for your little chap!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 05.05.05 1:20:00 AM
Commercial fertilisers do not necessarily produce 'the wrong type of growth' for laminitics. On the contrary, grass stressed by LACK of nitrogen can actually be higher in sugars, so people are wrong to imply that fertilisation is bad.
Generally, the more grass growth there is in any given period of sun, the less % sugar there is in it. That's why grass that has STOPPED growing because of frost is more dangerous, and why, though the grass grew like mad, we saw very little laminitis in April. It was dull and mild, so there was lots of growth but not much sugar was made.
Horse pasture does not want excess fertiliser obviously, but it does need ADEQUATE nutrients for healthy grass growth, both nitrogen and minerals. You don't get healthy horses out of unhealthy pasture.
I believe organic or semi-organics are best because they produce a slower release of nutrients to sustain even growth year round, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater - grass needs nutrients.
Jackie
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : OP
Date : 05.05.05 1:51:00 PM
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies – much appreciated.
The heat is still in his foot, but pulse has gone and he is walking a lot better. The vet is coming up at 4pm today.. so we will see what he says. Will let you know..
I will also ask the vet about the situation i am facing..
I don’t know if i made it clear, but, in the field they are in now (summer grazing).. it is split into two main areas.. one area is about 1 acre (NOT fertilised) and the other 2 acres (fertilised).
The 1 acre patch is split into two and is well grazed, but growing as we rest each part. This is where the horses are now and i am moving them between these two areas.. as well as giving ad lib hay. This is also the area where our shetland’s pen is.
This is the area where my shetland got laminitis.. there are 2 other ponies and 2 horses on this patch.. so, as you can imagine there is not long lush grass... short and sparse...
The 2 acre patch is what was fertilised and the grass has gone mad.. long and lush – they haven’t grazed this yet since we fertilised 3 weeks ago... now, i am in a situation where they are either on short and sparse with hay.. or long and lush fertilised ??
Obviously my shetland is remaining in his pen until he has compeltely recovered, but my other 4.. they are all natives and in the at risk category (ok to fat condition)..
Do i keep them in the short and sparse grass for the time being and keep feeding hay.. wait until the grass growth stabilises ?
Start strip grazing now on the long stuff ? Which will make my good doers fatter.. maybe more susceptible to laminitis ?
I could always keep the horses on the short stuff and take a crop of hay off the long stuff.. ?? Maybe ?
Any advice would be gratefullly appreciated and don’t worry.. i know no discussion forum replaces the advice of a veterinary surgeon. However, i do appreciate that there are years of advice and experience on this forum..
x
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : OP
Date : 05.05.05 8:41:00 PM
Just to let those who posted know that my vet came up today and was pleased with what we are doing..
He said we cant do anything more and it is a case of keeping him in his "mud pen" and feeding hay for the summer.. and then keep in it again in the Autumn. Bless my little chap! He is walking a lot better and vet said there is no lasting damage done.. phew.
Have collected lots more branches tonight off a poplar and willow tree, so shetland will be pleased tomorrow..
Vet also had a examination down there.. and it looks like his testicles are appearing.. yay!
Will keep you posted!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : KM
Date : 06.05.05 9:11:00 AM
Glad everything is working out.
Just try and keep him occupied with interesting things like toys etc.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : katie
Date : 06.05.05 4:45:00 PM
really p;eased
) Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Healthy Horse
Date : 06.05.05 5:02:00 PM
Hi OP
Glad things appear to be getting better! Try to keep his fibre intake up, this will prevent his hindgut becoming acidic and leaking more toxins into his system - soaked hay is brilliant for this. I would also consider feeding him a supplement which contains broad spectrum vit and mins and a probiotic - my personal favourite is Antilam as this also contains a foot supplement to promote good regrowth, the probiotic will helps keep the hindgut moving and the vits and mins will help support his alround system so he can cope better. I fear that you will have to keep him on what amounts to a mud paddock whilst the grass is like it is at the moment, and you are right about your other ponies too, watch them carefully. You could consider a greenguard muzzle too. Keeping everything cross for you!
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From : Vic
Date : 06.05.05 9:43:00 PM
It's 20 years since we had a little section A go down with the dreaded L. Cut lots of nettles, let them dry and feed daily. It may sound ridulous but it's an old fashioned and effective remedy. Obviously grass is out for the time being. I'm sure there are many other remedies as suggested above of course. Good luck.
Subject : re:- 1st time Laminitis (laminitus)
From :
Date : 06.05.05 10:29:00 PM
Sorry to but in on this thread but does the greenguard muzzle stay on ? I have a nylon type muzzle and my pony gets it straight off. I am going to get her a field safe headcollar to help keep the muzzle where it should be.