Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2005 14:04:40 GMT 1
Subject : Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 25.11.03 3:42:00 PM
I have a mare with Cushings/Laminitis the vet has said she is not going to recover from the laminitis and to give her the best quality of life that I can.
I have moved her to a new yard and she has become very fond of the 2 geldings there. We have had to restrict her grazing and at the moment she has a bucket muzzle on when out in the field.
She is on 1 bute am and pm, Peroglide and her LPS and Immune Plus from Global Herbs. She is fed Hi Fi Lite and Spillers Hi Fibre Cubes. She has a net of hay. Her body weight is good not overweight.
Her moods have become worse recently probably hormone related and I know she probably is in some pain although she just seems to want to be out.
She does seem slightly better when she is tied outside. She bit me quite hard yesterday when I was doing her rug. I try and be gentle as she seems quite sensitive. I want to do the best for her but I really do not want to be covered in bruises. Can anyone suggest anything that may be of help I would really appreciate it and I am sure she would also. Many thanks.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Sarah&Lad
Date : 25.11.03 3:47:00 PM
Hormonise (liquid chaste berry) is good for moodiness, Lad had cushings (not severe) and I find the Hormonise made him happier after a week or so, he's now on it all the time and he's doing fine.
Hope this helps a little, good luck!
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 25.11.03 3:54:00 PM
Sarah & Lad
I was thinking that this might help also. Do you know if you are able to use this with prescribed drugs. Will try and find the tel no and give them a ring. Many thanks.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.11.03 4:16:00 PM
if she's in pain and won't recover why don't you have her PTS
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Holly
Date : 25.11.03 4:29:00 PM
white willow and meadowsweet as well as devils claw are all natural painkillers.
Chaste tree berries help with hormones All can be ordered from wenals herbs.
have you looked into homoeopathy for cushings? it has very good results some of the rems being used are ACTH and Luthenising hormone nosode which all work on the hormones to do with the pituitary, might be worth consulting a holistic vet.My girl is on both at present and it appears to be helping.
If your mare ISN'T going to recover and is in alot of pain then odviously her quality of life at some point needs questioning.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Holly
Date : 25.11.03 4:30:00 PM
Forgot to say that the behaviour could also be pain related.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 25.11.03 4:49:00 PM
Kris,
Please can you give more detail.
Why does the vet feel this horse will never recover ?
Is the horse a sinker ?
Does he feel this becuase of the Cushings ?
What have you doen to date ?
What has farrier done to date ?
Not wishing to sound harsh or cruel but if this horse genuinely will not recover for very specific reasons then I'm afraid I am with others here and you really do need to consider her future. It is not fair to keep her going in constant pain, poor qulity of life and with no real future.
I know how hard it is to let go of ahorse in this situtation, but, for the sake of your horse, if this is the case, then you must.
If, on the other hand, the vet has said this simply because the Cushings has been diagnosed etc, then there may be plenty of things you can try that may help and may make a big difference.
To find out more join the Yahoo Cushings group and talk to others here such as Lorraine Luke, Jackie Taylor etc that have Cushings horses and are managing them well and giving them a good quality of life.
Talk to the Lamintis Trust about getting onto their clinical trials
Really need more info.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 25.11.03 5:49:00 PM
Yes, I need more info to be able to 'see' what might be going on - why does the vet say she will not recover?
What blood tests have been done and what were the levels? Have x-rays been done and what were the findings?
When was the laminitis?
I'm afraid I do not agree with any horse being turned out on bute for laminitis pain - she could be doing herself immense damage without realising it.
And please do NOT use hormonise or Vitex/Chastetree/Monk's Pepper products as well as pergolide - they are BOTH D2 dopamine receptor agonists and using both without veterinary supervision could cause an overdose.
Please folks, do not recommend herbs to horses on drugs unless you know the pharmacology.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : HeatherA
Date : 25.11.03 5:57:00 PM
I'm interested as to why he won't recover from the laminitis as well. My Shetland has Cushings, we're currently 2.5 yrs from diagnosis. He's on Zerobute (herbal) and Periactin. Vet knows about the Zerobute. Shetland pony had a laminitic bout about 2yrs ago but we used surgical, heart barshoeing and we followed (very strictly) all the advice from the laminitis trust including keeping him on Farriers Formula. Now you wouldn't know he'd had a problem except for a small amount of white line seperation.
He's kept barefoot with a standard trim by my farrier as he doesn't do any work so doesn't need shoes but we don't do any four pointtrims or dratsic foot re-alignment, just bog standard, traditional foot trims.
He gets 14hrs turn out a day with a friendly, webbing muzzle from the USA and comes into a shed at night with his friend and gets ad lib high fibre haylage.
My vet has a quick look at him every time he's out and we have regular disucssion about qaulity of life but my Shetland seems happy and mobile so we're keeping going. At the moment he's still sneaking up behind his companion, biting hiom in the hocks and then trotting away as fast as his legs will carry him with his usual cheeky grin so seems pretty happy :^)
I've actually instructed my vet to tell me bluntly if he thinks I should call time but am hanging on too long.
Heather
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.11.03 6:15:00 PM
The Equine Cushings group is
groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
great folk
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 26.11.03 11:01:00 AM
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 26.11.03 11:26:00 AM
Thanks you everyone who has answered.
The pony was diagnosed with Laminitis the end of January which she has sufferd most part of her teenage years and diagnosed with Cushings in March she had pedal bone rotation and I have had surgical shoes on her all year. The 2nd xrays were taken in September although she had not become worse she had not improved enough for her to be sound again.
She had been stabled for 9months in American barn stabling and only coming out the stable once a week to muck out fully and when she was shod. I moved her to a yard with only 12ft to walk to the field so she can be turned out for some part of the day.
I understand that I will have to make the decision sometime but want her to have the best quality of life until she has had enough. She really wants to be out and I understand this could be causing more damage but the quality of life she has left I really do not want her stabled to the end of her days.
I have been turning her out for a few hrs a day muzzled and she is really happy once she is out.
I just wanted to know whether there was anything I could give her that would help her hormones as there are times that she has become a little aggressive this is only the 2nd time in her life that she has bitten me in 20yrs but it was quite a nasty bite although she has become more nippy lately.
I did not want this to become worse if there was something that I could do. She does not looked distressed so I do not think that she is ready yet to end her days.
I really appreciate your concerns.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 26.11.03 12:12:00 AM
If I were you I would get a second opinion from the Laminitis Clinic - correct hoof dressing should have her feet a lot better by now, though there are always some cases who have sustained too much damage to fully recover, but your vet would have been able to tell you than in the first few weeks if that were the case.
The sad fact is that management of laminitis by both vets and farriers still leaves a lot to be desired in many cases, and whilst that may not be so in your case, I don't know how you could tell without having someone like Robert Eustace give you a definitive opinion on the mechanics of her feet. He does a referral service for vets based on x-rays, and you can talk to the Clinic on their Laminitis Helpline. That is a premium rate line though - 0905 1051051
Bute for instance is not a good idea longterm either, as it has negative effects on circulation. It can also cause stomach ulcers - that may be the reason for the increase in aggression you can see. Is she off her feed at all? Even if not, it is definately worth testing her on anti-ulcer product to see if that is the problem.
Has her ACTH and insulin response to pergolide been tested, ie is the dosage right?
Diet plays a hugely important role in many cases too, and she is not getting enough vits and mins - you might get a big improvement there.
We can help you with that on the metabolic horse group, or the cushings group. Either way you are going to need to take control somewhat, get hold of all the lab data and accurate info on the x-ray findings if you want anyone to help see if this mare can be helped back to soundness.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 26.11.03 12:53:00 AM
Jackie Many thanks some very useful info. She has been off her food slightly the last few weeks although she is eating her hay and still loves her Hi Fibre cubes which I put in her ball. She seems to eat the food that is left in there overnight but not during the day.
I know long term that bute is not good for them. Spoke to Steve the vet at Global Herbs who recommended the LPS and Immu Plus and he said to keep her on the medication that the vet has subscribed. Although he did recommend Agnus Cactus and a Cushings spray. I was thinking of ordering the Agnus Cactus but read the write up on the Spray and was not completely satisfied with the findings. Just thought I would get ideas from others.
Spoken to others and 1/2 a peroglide tab a day seems to be about right. I am having her teeth checked on 15th Dec which could be causing some probs with her eating.
Seem to be unable to access info on Metobolic horse as I am only able to use PC at work.
I will talk to the Laminitic Clinic on once her teeth have been checked unless I realise there is some more concern.
My vet has a very good reputation in my area and and he works with my farrier who only specilises in surgical shoeing. I love this little mare to bits and want to do everything possible to I have to call it a day.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 27.11.03 11:26:00 AM
To everone that has helped in this
I have spoken to Roger at Trinity Consultants and had a long chat with him about my mare and I am keeping on the supplements that she is already on and waiting to she has had her teeth checked which may make her digest her food better which could be what is causing some discomfort.
I will pick her feet out and rugged her outside as she seems a little happier when outside. It seems that she is getting less tolerant to her condition. While she is outside she has other things that occupy her mind.
I am trying to give her the best quality of life possible. She has been a little better and I really do not think that she wanted to hurt me but she finds it hard when she is in this discomfort.
Out in the field you would not realise that she is unwell and friends have said that she is looking a lot better than she did in the last yard and seems a lot happier. Will keep you updated.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 27.11.03 11:55:00 AM
Hi Kris,
Hope you don't mind me asking, but why have only 2 sets of x-rays ever been taken when you have had the problem since March and remedial shoeing is being done ? This seems a little odd to me.
It is usual practice in cases that require surgical/remedial shoeing to take a set just prior to each shoeing session so that the farrier knows exactly how to set the shoes/trim etc.
Without this the farrier is stabbing in the dark (no matter how experienced they may be) as to actual position of the pedal bone and may not be providing that vital and necessary support to help the horse recover - or even worse, making matters worse by incorrectly applying pressure.
A badly set remedial shoe can be just as bad as not supporting the foot at all.
As a result this horse may be taking longer to recover and at worst be prevented from doing so.
It's hard at times to question "professionals" but sometimes it really is the best course of action to take when done in a ploite but firm manner.
I know one person that nearly lsot their horse because the vet was adamant that convex soles were OK ! Thankfully she got a second opinion and a good remedail farrier involved. The horse had resctions done on both fronts, the pedal bone saved from piercing the sole and afte a year this horse was 100% back in work. Another couple of weeks could have seen a whole different story.
I think perhaps you need to have a sit down with both vet and farrier, together, and disucss a full and proper plan of action to give this horse the best possible chance with first port of call being a new set of x-rays so that you all know exactly what is going on with the feet.
With the diet and supplements aspects, do keep talking to people such as Trinity and Jackie etc and do join the yahoo groups.....there are a lot of things that will help you there.
As Jackie mentioned, we still have a long way to go in this country at times in relation to Cushing, Insulin Resistance and laminitis in many repsects.
Things have changed a heck of a lot the past 5 years but still plenty of scope to improve and plenty of things now starting to filter through to help make life better for both owners and horses.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 27.11.03 4:19:00 PM
Thanks Liz
I changed vets as he seemed to best in my area dealing with the condition my pony has and the farrier is well known to do a good job.
I had previously questioned them both with not be happy regarding my mares recovery and got them both to come out they seemed happy with the progress.
Maybe they still are not good enough. I know they both live in the Essex area were we are and both travel quite a distance out the area dealing with the same sort of problems.
I changed vet and farrier because of this thinking that I had the best that I could possibly have.
The vet and farrier work together. I have been thinking and maybe it could be because we are not insured as the pony has had this condition b/f they are frightened that I will not pay up.
I have always payed. This does make me feel quite upset. That I have done what I they are not helping the best they can. and see what they have to say. Thanks for your help. This little mare is my life and it is going to be hard to let her go and I am trying to best I can to give her the best quality of life.
Will have to go and I only have access to the PC at work so will not be back to Monday. Will ring the Laminitis Trust tommorow.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 03.12.03 10:32:00 AM
Have been beating myself up over this.
The problem definatley seems hormone related she has been alot happier this week. I groomed her last night with not attempt of her trying to bite she was actually enjoying it.
My vet and farrier I am sure were doing the best that they can for the pony
in my situation. I just hope that I am able also. When you work full time it seems to be always on your mind.
Thanks again
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : loopylass
Date : 03.12.03 1:18:00 PM
I know that every-one has put their twp pennies worth in on this one, but thought I would add mine too!
I have a 31yr old 13hh welsh x mare. She had never had laminitis until last year from which she recovered. Then suddenly this year she went down severely. It was in all four feet and we thought we would lose her. But thankfully I have a superb vet and we treated for cushings blindly so to speak as she still had active lami, and couldnt test for the pituarty tumour.
After intensive after care with frog supports, drug therapy and remedial trimming the girl did us proud. She is now off bute completely and only on Celance one tab per day. Its remarkable!! Even the characteristic fat deposits above her eye sockets have started to go, and she has so much energy now and being sound although no-longer ridden I ahve been long reigning her. I know that not all horses put through lami and especially cushings related lami, but sometimes the gamble pays off!
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 03.12.03 3:52:00 PM
Loopylass
There is chance for my girl. She had laminitis in the past so I know there could be less chance of her recovering. I just wanted to try everything. No one has said stick in there and she will get better. I am just holding on that there could be a chance I have got to try everything.
It is really nice to hear stories like yours.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JanF
Date : 03.12.03 4:18:00 PM
Kris - don't give up hope. Our boy rotated and foundered in both front feet. Pedal bone came through both front feet. This was 4 years ago. He is out 24/7 and galloping around like an idiot today. There is always hope and each case is different.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 11.12.03 3:25:00 PM
Thanks everyone,
When your vet and farrier give up hope you have little faith in them. You need there support. I have tried to speak to as many people as possible and you lot have been great. While the pony seems happy I have that little bit of hope. The vet and farrier are coming out next week so I hope they tell me somthing positive. I will not give up to the little mare lets me know.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 17.12.03 11:11:00 AM
I have spoken to the vet and he said if I am able to cut down on the bute it will help with the possible Ulcer and he did recommend the U Guard. He has said that if the pony is unable to live without bute we have got to think of quality of life. The farrier has seen her and she has been reshod and seems ok. She has been alot happier. We have cut down the bute a little and hope she feels a little better. She has also had her teeth done. She usually has her guiness at xmas but looks like she will be t total this year. I have to think what I can give her this year.
From : Kris
Date : 25.11.03 3:42:00 PM
I have a mare with Cushings/Laminitis the vet has said she is not going to recover from the laminitis and to give her the best quality of life that I can.
I have moved her to a new yard and she has become very fond of the 2 geldings there. We have had to restrict her grazing and at the moment she has a bucket muzzle on when out in the field.
She is on 1 bute am and pm, Peroglide and her LPS and Immune Plus from Global Herbs. She is fed Hi Fi Lite and Spillers Hi Fibre Cubes. She has a net of hay. Her body weight is good not overweight.
Her moods have become worse recently probably hormone related and I know she probably is in some pain although she just seems to want to be out.
She does seem slightly better when she is tied outside. She bit me quite hard yesterday when I was doing her rug. I try and be gentle as she seems quite sensitive. I want to do the best for her but I really do not want to be covered in bruises. Can anyone suggest anything that may be of help I would really appreciate it and I am sure she would also. Many thanks.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Sarah&Lad
Date : 25.11.03 3:47:00 PM
Hormonise (liquid chaste berry) is good for moodiness, Lad had cushings (not severe) and I find the Hormonise made him happier after a week or so, he's now on it all the time and he's doing fine.
Hope this helps a little, good luck!
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 25.11.03 3:54:00 PM
Sarah & Lad
I was thinking that this might help also. Do you know if you are able to use this with prescribed drugs. Will try and find the tel no and give them a ring. Many thanks.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.11.03 4:16:00 PM
if she's in pain and won't recover why don't you have her PTS
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Holly
Date : 25.11.03 4:29:00 PM
white willow and meadowsweet as well as devils claw are all natural painkillers.
Chaste tree berries help with hormones All can be ordered from wenals herbs.
have you looked into homoeopathy for cushings? it has very good results some of the rems being used are ACTH and Luthenising hormone nosode which all work on the hormones to do with the pituitary, might be worth consulting a holistic vet.My girl is on both at present and it appears to be helping.
If your mare ISN'T going to recover and is in alot of pain then odviously her quality of life at some point needs questioning.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Holly
Date : 25.11.03 4:30:00 PM
Forgot to say that the behaviour could also be pain related.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 25.11.03 4:49:00 PM
Kris,
Please can you give more detail.
Why does the vet feel this horse will never recover ?
Is the horse a sinker ?
Does he feel this becuase of the Cushings ?
What have you doen to date ?
What has farrier done to date ?
Not wishing to sound harsh or cruel but if this horse genuinely will not recover for very specific reasons then I'm afraid I am with others here and you really do need to consider her future. It is not fair to keep her going in constant pain, poor qulity of life and with no real future.
I know how hard it is to let go of ahorse in this situtation, but, for the sake of your horse, if this is the case, then you must.
If, on the other hand, the vet has said this simply because the Cushings has been diagnosed etc, then there may be plenty of things you can try that may help and may make a big difference.
To find out more join the Yahoo Cushings group and talk to others here such as Lorraine Luke, Jackie Taylor etc that have Cushings horses and are managing them well and giving them a good quality of life.
Talk to the Lamintis Trust about getting onto their clinical trials
Really need more info.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 25.11.03 5:49:00 PM
Yes, I need more info to be able to 'see' what might be going on - why does the vet say she will not recover?
What blood tests have been done and what were the levels? Have x-rays been done and what were the findings?
When was the laminitis?
I'm afraid I do not agree with any horse being turned out on bute for laminitis pain - she could be doing herself immense damage without realising it.
And please do NOT use hormonise or Vitex/Chastetree/Monk's Pepper products as well as pergolide - they are BOTH D2 dopamine receptor agonists and using both without veterinary supervision could cause an overdose.
Please folks, do not recommend herbs to horses on drugs unless you know the pharmacology.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : HeatherA
Date : 25.11.03 5:57:00 PM
I'm interested as to why he won't recover from the laminitis as well. My Shetland has Cushings, we're currently 2.5 yrs from diagnosis. He's on Zerobute (herbal) and Periactin. Vet knows about the Zerobute. Shetland pony had a laminitic bout about 2yrs ago but we used surgical, heart barshoeing and we followed (very strictly) all the advice from the laminitis trust including keeping him on Farriers Formula. Now you wouldn't know he'd had a problem except for a small amount of white line seperation.
He's kept barefoot with a standard trim by my farrier as he doesn't do any work so doesn't need shoes but we don't do any four pointtrims or dratsic foot re-alignment, just bog standard, traditional foot trims.
He gets 14hrs turn out a day with a friendly, webbing muzzle from the USA and comes into a shed at night with his friend and gets ad lib high fibre haylage.
My vet has a quick look at him every time he's out and we have regular disucssion about qaulity of life but my Shetland seems happy and mobile so we're keeping going. At the moment he's still sneaking up behind his companion, biting hiom in the hocks and then trotting away as fast as his legs will carry him with his usual cheeky grin so seems pretty happy :^)
I've actually instructed my vet to tell me bluntly if he thinks I should call time but am hanging on too long.
Heather
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 25.11.03 6:15:00 PM
The Equine Cushings group is
groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
great folk
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From :
Date : 26.11.03 11:01:00 AM
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 26.11.03 11:26:00 AM
Thanks you everyone who has answered.
The pony was diagnosed with Laminitis the end of January which she has sufferd most part of her teenage years and diagnosed with Cushings in March she had pedal bone rotation and I have had surgical shoes on her all year. The 2nd xrays were taken in September although she had not become worse she had not improved enough for her to be sound again.
She had been stabled for 9months in American barn stabling and only coming out the stable once a week to muck out fully and when she was shod. I moved her to a yard with only 12ft to walk to the field so she can be turned out for some part of the day.
I understand that I will have to make the decision sometime but want her to have the best quality of life until she has had enough. She really wants to be out and I understand this could be causing more damage but the quality of life she has left I really do not want her stabled to the end of her days.
I have been turning her out for a few hrs a day muzzled and she is really happy once she is out.
I just wanted to know whether there was anything I could give her that would help her hormones as there are times that she has become a little aggressive this is only the 2nd time in her life that she has bitten me in 20yrs but it was quite a nasty bite although she has become more nippy lately.
I did not want this to become worse if there was something that I could do. She does not looked distressed so I do not think that she is ready yet to end her days.
I really appreciate your concerns.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JackieJATaylor
Date : 26.11.03 12:12:00 AM
If I were you I would get a second opinion from the Laminitis Clinic - correct hoof dressing should have her feet a lot better by now, though there are always some cases who have sustained too much damage to fully recover, but your vet would have been able to tell you than in the first few weeks if that were the case.
The sad fact is that management of laminitis by both vets and farriers still leaves a lot to be desired in many cases, and whilst that may not be so in your case, I don't know how you could tell without having someone like Robert Eustace give you a definitive opinion on the mechanics of her feet. He does a referral service for vets based on x-rays, and you can talk to the Clinic on their Laminitis Helpline. That is a premium rate line though - 0905 1051051
Bute for instance is not a good idea longterm either, as it has negative effects on circulation. It can also cause stomach ulcers - that may be the reason for the increase in aggression you can see. Is she off her feed at all? Even if not, it is definately worth testing her on anti-ulcer product to see if that is the problem.
Has her ACTH and insulin response to pergolide been tested, ie is the dosage right?
Diet plays a hugely important role in many cases too, and she is not getting enough vits and mins - you might get a big improvement there.
We can help you with that on the metabolic horse group, or the cushings group. Either way you are going to need to take control somewhat, get hold of all the lab data and accurate info on the x-ray findings if you want anyone to help see if this mare can be helped back to soundness.
Jackie
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 26.11.03 12:53:00 AM
Jackie Many thanks some very useful info. She has been off her food slightly the last few weeks although she is eating her hay and still loves her Hi Fibre cubes which I put in her ball. She seems to eat the food that is left in there overnight but not during the day.
I know long term that bute is not good for them. Spoke to Steve the vet at Global Herbs who recommended the LPS and Immu Plus and he said to keep her on the medication that the vet has subscribed. Although he did recommend Agnus Cactus and a Cushings spray. I was thinking of ordering the Agnus Cactus but read the write up on the Spray and was not completely satisfied with the findings. Just thought I would get ideas from others.
Spoken to others and 1/2 a peroglide tab a day seems to be about right. I am having her teeth checked on 15th Dec which could be causing some probs with her eating.
Seem to be unable to access info on Metobolic horse as I am only able to use PC at work.
I will talk to the Laminitic Clinic on once her teeth have been checked unless I realise there is some more concern.
My vet has a very good reputation in my area and and he works with my farrier who only specilises in surgical shoeing. I love this little mare to bits and want to do everything possible to I have to call it a day.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 27.11.03 11:26:00 AM
To everone that has helped in this
I have spoken to Roger at Trinity Consultants and had a long chat with him about my mare and I am keeping on the supplements that she is already on and waiting to she has had her teeth checked which may make her digest her food better which could be what is causing some discomfort.
I will pick her feet out and rugged her outside as she seems a little happier when outside. It seems that she is getting less tolerant to her condition. While she is outside she has other things that occupy her mind.
I am trying to give her the best quality of life possible. She has been a little better and I really do not think that she wanted to hurt me but she finds it hard when she is in this discomfort.
Out in the field you would not realise that she is unwell and friends have said that she is looking a lot better than she did in the last yard and seems a lot happier. Will keep you updated.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : liz-horsetalk
Date : 27.11.03 11:55:00 AM
Hi Kris,
Hope you don't mind me asking, but why have only 2 sets of x-rays ever been taken when you have had the problem since March and remedial shoeing is being done ? This seems a little odd to me.
It is usual practice in cases that require surgical/remedial shoeing to take a set just prior to each shoeing session so that the farrier knows exactly how to set the shoes/trim etc.
Without this the farrier is stabbing in the dark (no matter how experienced they may be) as to actual position of the pedal bone and may not be providing that vital and necessary support to help the horse recover - or even worse, making matters worse by incorrectly applying pressure.
A badly set remedial shoe can be just as bad as not supporting the foot at all.
As a result this horse may be taking longer to recover and at worst be prevented from doing so.
It's hard at times to question "professionals" but sometimes it really is the best course of action to take when done in a ploite but firm manner.
I know one person that nearly lsot their horse because the vet was adamant that convex soles were OK ! Thankfully she got a second opinion and a good remedail farrier involved. The horse had resctions done on both fronts, the pedal bone saved from piercing the sole and afte a year this horse was 100% back in work. Another couple of weeks could have seen a whole different story.
I think perhaps you need to have a sit down with both vet and farrier, together, and disucss a full and proper plan of action to give this horse the best possible chance with first port of call being a new set of x-rays so that you all know exactly what is going on with the feet.
With the diet and supplements aspects, do keep talking to people such as Trinity and Jackie etc and do join the yahoo groups.....there are a lot of things that will help you there.
As Jackie mentioned, we still have a long way to go in this country at times in relation to Cushing, Insulin Resistance and laminitis in many repsects.
Things have changed a heck of a lot the past 5 years but still plenty of scope to improve and plenty of things now starting to filter through to help make life better for both owners and horses.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 27.11.03 4:19:00 PM
Thanks Liz
I changed vets as he seemed to best in my area dealing with the condition my pony has and the farrier is well known to do a good job.
I had previously questioned them both with not be happy regarding my mares recovery and got them both to come out they seemed happy with the progress.
Maybe they still are not good enough. I know they both live in the Essex area were we are and both travel quite a distance out the area dealing with the same sort of problems.
I changed vet and farrier because of this thinking that I had the best that I could possibly have.
The vet and farrier work together. I have been thinking and maybe it could be because we are not insured as the pony has had this condition b/f they are frightened that I will not pay up.
I have always payed. This does make me feel quite upset. That I have done what I they are not helping the best they can. and see what they have to say. Thanks for your help. This little mare is my life and it is going to be hard to let her go and I am trying to best I can to give her the best quality of life.
Will have to go and I only have access to the PC at work so will not be back to Monday. Will ring the Laminitis Trust tommorow.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 03.12.03 10:32:00 AM
Have been beating myself up over this.
The problem definatley seems hormone related she has been alot happier this week. I groomed her last night with not attempt of her trying to bite she was actually enjoying it.
My vet and farrier I am sure were doing the best that they can for the pony
in my situation. I just hope that I am able also. When you work full time it seems to be always on your mind.
Thanks again
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : loopylass
Date : 03.12.03 1:18:00 PM
I know that every-one has put their twp pennies worth in on this one, but thought I would add mine too!
I have a 31yr old 13hh welsh x mare. She had never had laminitis until last year from which she recovered. Then suddenly this year she went down severely. It was in all four feet and we thought we would lose her. But thankfully I have a superb vet and we treated for cushings blindly so to speak as she still had active lami, and couldnt test for the pituarty tumour.
After intensive after care with frog supports, drug therapy and remedial trimming the girl did us proud. She is now off bute completely and only on Celance one tab per day. Its remarkable!! Even the characteristic fat deposits above her eye sockets have started to go, and she has so much energy now and being sound although no-longer ridden I ahve been long reigning her. I know that not all horses put through lami and especially cushings related lami, but sometimes the gamble pays off!
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 03.12.03 3:52:00 PM
Loopylass
There is chance for my girl. She had laminitis in the past so I know there could be less chance of her recovering. I just wanted to try everything. No one has said stick in there and she will get better. I am just holding on that there could be a chance I have got to try everything.
It is really nice to hear stories like yours.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : JanF
Date : 03.12.03 4:18:00 PM
Kris - don't give up hope. Our boy rotated and foundered in both front feet. Pedal bone came through both front feet. This was 4 years ago. He is out 24/7 and galloping around like an idiot today. There is always hope and each case is different.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 11.12.03 3:25:00 PM
Thanks everyone,
When your vet and farrier give up hope you have little faith in them. You need there support. I have tried to speak to as many people as possible and you lot have been great. While the pony seems happy I have that little bit of hope. The vet and farrier are coming out next week so I hope they tell me somthing positive. I will not give up to the little mare lets me know.
Subject : re:- Behaviour-Cushings/Laminitis
From : Kris
Date : 17.12.03 11:11:00 AM
I have spoken to the vet and he said if I am able to cut down on the bute it will help with the possible Ulcer and he did recommend the U Guard. He has said that if the pony is unable to live without bute we have got to think of quality of life. The farrier has seen her and she has been reshod and seems ok. She has been alot happier. We have cut down the bute a little and hope she feels a little better. She has also had her teeth done. She usually has her guiness at xmas but looks like she will be t total this year. I have to think what I can give her this year.