Israel gave up the Gaza strip to the Palestinian people, they left factories with contracts and equipment, they left houses farms and banks with money in, they left everything for the Palestinian people to move into and take up a life of industry and wealth. THEN HAMAS moved in and started to terrorise the Palestinian people on the Gaza strip. They dug tunnels from Gaza into Israel to carry out bombing and shootings, they killed innocent people with car bombs in markets, near schools. There is no mention on the news of the 20 trucks of aid that roll into the Gaza strip every SINGLE day from Israel filled with food water, medical supplies, clothing etc there is no mention of the 2,000 Palestinians fleeing over the border into Israel and being welcomed by the Israeli's with food blankets medicines clothing..........there is no mention the the Israeli army give warnings of bombing raids in Palestine,by the use fo leaflet drops phone calls radio broadcasts, and there is not mention it was a bloody HAMAS rocket that took the top off the hospital and the UN building because HAMAS don't give a flying f**k about the Palestinian people at all , all they want is every single Jew dead, its in their charter and its makes very interesting reading! If people want to sign a petition then sign one to obliterate the entire HAMAS command and their followers. Its interesting that when Israel gets attacked not one voice is raised in condemnation but when Israel strieks back then they are the terrorists? I won't be signing anything for anyone and if any one wants to sign it then at least be in full possession of the facts from both sides before jumping in. Furthermore it was a HAMAS rocket that laned in Egypt as well and they had the nerve to try and blame the Israeli's for that except they got caught out when the Egyptian air force tracked where the rocket was launched from INSIDE Palestine. And no I am NOT Jewish, nor Israeli but I am in possession of facts that some people choose not to want to read and digest.
well if you want folks to sign a petition then surely it is better to be in possession of both sides of an arguement than just one view from somewhat biased sources is it not?
And having been to both Israel and Palestine quite a few times, then I think I'm in a better position to actually KNOW the facts than someone who has gleaned her information from tv news reports, and 'scholars' and you tube clips posted by news reporters who look only for the 'sensationalist' headlines. Have you ever been there Amanda?
No one has to sign any petition but I ask people to open their minds and then decide. I happen to believe in fairness and humanity and don't believe these are being applied to the Palestinians. Many believe the Israelis are the oppressed ones, that is their choice.
I have not been to Israel or what's left of Palestine but it is very easy to find stuff out these days if you look and open your eyes. Are you trying to shut me up and insult me? I am not going to get into a discussion with you but I will not shut up. If all these people are lying, don't forget there are two sides to every story!
ps. You will also be familiar with the Hamas rockets and terrible suffering of Israelis if you have been many times your visits must have been horrid and terrifying. Why go back to such a place under terrible terrorist attack? Rhetorical question.
No most of my visits were pleasant and I have very happy memories of them except one visit when a car bomb (planted by HAMAS) went off in the next street with no warning...........my visits to the Palestinian side were also quite pleasant and I took a lot of happy memeories away from there as well. I have friends on both sides of the Gaza strip some of whom I am lucky to still be in contact with and they all say the same thing ......the ordinary Palestinian people have no quarrel with Israel and Israel has no quarrel with them, but they have issues with HAMAS and its supporters and those are the people they need to stop............would you like someone diggin tunnels in your garden at night and bombing your family? All I ask is that you get some facts from the other side of the coin before asking people to sign a petition that frankly presents a very one sided view of the whole issue. Israel has one of the most sophisticated defence froms in the name of the Iron Dome, they protect their people, HAMAS protect no one but themselves, and have you read the charter that HAMAS puiblished online, where they quite clearly call for the 'extinction of all Jewish people anywhere in the world and they will not rest until they are all slaughtered' it makes very enlightening reading.
Btw. I believed the Iron Dome was what was protecting Israel until recently. No doubt you believe this is propaganda as is Finkelstein's analysis. Three Israeli civilian deaths before iron dome and three after. Governments are also engaged in propaganda don't forget.
It's all our fault: I mean the British. Israel is Palestinian land which we gave the Jews at the end of WWII, thus solving one problem but creating another.
I do think we have enabled things. Here's a quote from the H&H thread and also research the Balfour Declaration. I don't know which version of the story of the Balfour Declaration is considered correct today.
Long time lurker and not how I envisaged my first post!
Whilst I agree that colonialism by the West since the 19th century is responsible for much of the unrest we see in the Middle East today, I disagree with some of the points here.
Indeed Palestine was governed by a British Mandate which had promised both self determination of the Arab peoples in Palestine, and a Jewish national home which was aggressively lobbied for by the Zionist movement. We did not simply decide it. Large scale Jewish immigration to Palestine had started as early as 1882, which caused the Arabs to pressure the British to restrict Jewish immigration and land purchase, which was ignored. With the rise of the Nazis immigration indeed increased, but the creation of the national home had started long before.
The Zionist extremists went on to use terror tactics against the Arabs and the British to displace the native Arabs and gain control of the parts of Palestine we now recognise as Israel, which was eventually supported by the Jewish leadership in Palestine. I disagree with the statement that the Jewish people weren't to blame. In fact, they demonstrated one of the first successful examples of using terrorism for political gain, leaving a terrible legacy in the Middle East.
I have no personal connection to Israel or Palestine, just an interest in Middle Eastern history.
My husband has worked in Israel and visited Palestine. I do not doubt his evidence. He says that he has seen what amounts to no more than concentration camps, and the consequence of land grabbing by Israel, and the stark difference between Israeli houses and Palestinian ones. My best friend is from a mixed race family and her daughter came back from a Gap year with an absent without leave Israeli Tank Commander, who eventually returned. finished his time and worked there for a while. I believe the only way for this to end is for the occupied territories to be returned to Palestine, yet I can't see that happening. I believe and hope for a free Palestine which will respect Israels Borders. I also have to admit that Hamas are hiding behind children and womens skirts, and acknowledge that they are indeed firing rockets from schools and residential areas, because they KNOW Israel will fire back and it is, unfortunately fuel for their cause. It's at times like this that I wish my Grandmother was still alive, so she could bang their heads together and get them to play nicely.
This is the most honest view of the situation I have seen in years:
I can't watch that cartoon jackiedo. This has been going on long before Hamas came into being and no doubt will only end when Israelis have killed, utterly subjugated or ousted all Palestinians. Any left will remain in what amounts to the current concentration camps... oh the irony! If you take the trouble to read the events leading up to this last massacre you will see Israel were the provocateurs. Israel will be judged by history.
I don't know why we have International law or human rights laws, no one takes any notice of them!
Indeed it has Amanda. I am of the personal opinion that 9/11 was triggered by the lack of condemnation of a previous attack on Palestine, and where are we now? My husband was attacked in Israel last time he was there (years ago I admit) and left with a fractured jaw. eye socket and nose for saying to a soldier "you of all peoples should know this is wrong?" Some would say he got off lightly, but at least he was brave enough to say it. I am afraid, Amanda, money talks. Yes the world should be ashamed of standing by whilst the Jews faced extermination in WW2 and, frankly before that.. I think the mistake was made by thinking that you could displace a persecuted people to house another persecuted people, I remember the days of the PLO, the Hijacks of aircraft etc. In those days we could only read the establishment views, the world is a more open place now with the internet, good and bad, it has the capacity for information and disinformation alike. Pretty powerful statements come from both sides. I am no supporter of Israel but I am neither a supporter of Hamas. I like to differentiate between Judaisim as a religion and Israel as a country. I am sure that better minds than mine have agonised about the situation for many years. Until we and the USA stop turning a blind eye and behave with consistency and actually put pressure on people rather than being afraid to upset a wealthy lobby I don't know what the answer is. Let's face it, it took the horrors of 9/11 on their own ground for funding for the IRA to dry up... Politics eh?, disguised as gods will
Your husband was indeed brave and lucky. Internationals and journalists are killed by IDF and even settlers. PLO sold Palestinians out for personal gain, this is one reason Hamas came into being. Palestine has no army and is resisting a $10 million a day USA subsidized and protected Israeli land grab and systematic brutal oppression of the native population in their own country. I am afraid I cannot find one single reason to support Israel, I have spent five weeks looking almost solidly. If they retreat (settlers, IDF and all) to their legal border lift the illegal blockade and Hamas attacks, then they have a right to defend themselves.