Castration - thoughts please

[auburnalia]

Hi All,

Its been literally ages since I have posted anything, and I am very sorry that now that I am it is to ask for your thoughts! I've been away having my twins which for some reason has taken up all of my time!! :-D

Anyway.... Its a question about my nearly 2 year old Golden Retriever Hugo. Do I get him castrated or not? Lots of people say that if you are not going to breed, which I have no intention of doing, then you should neuter. But why mess with nature for no reason? I know there are lots of health benefits associated with spaying but there are not the same health benefits of castrating. Hugo does not stray, hump, growl at other dogs, or any of those undesired behaviours where castrating is a good idea. He may as well already have been done, you'd never know..... the only small thing is that he is still very enthusiastic when we come home (even if we've only been out 2 mins!) or when visitors come in, but in my mind that is just him and not testosterone fuelled in the slightest? And he did get an errection the other day which seemed to confuse him no end... and me for that matter. I certainly don't want him feeling frustrated in anyway shape or form that's for sure. But again, he doesn't seem to be.

So do I bother doing it at all? I obviously have waited until he is fully mature before considering it as neutering early can have detrimental effects but now I am thinking, why?

I'd phone my vet and ask their thoughts but I'm not convinced they wouldn't see £££!

Thanks guys!

[ruthp]

There are pros and cons both ways. If he's reached the age of two without problems then there may be no reason to do it. Some entire males can get a bit aggressive during their teenage period, but at two he's past that.

I did have Dylan done at 6 months because there is a footpath that runs along the outside of our field where almost everyone in the village walks their dogs, and I didn't want him to be permanently frustrated. I do think that if there is any chance of the dog being frequently exposed to the scent of on heat females it is probably kinder to neuter.

[julz]

Yes undoubtedly. Un-neutered dogs and un-spayed bitches carry a higher risk of testicular & womb cancer later on in life. I would like to think that no-one wants that for their dog, but it would seem that some don't really care (not saying you don't after all you are asking the question)

A dog that lived in the next stair to me, had testicular cancer, his balls had swollen to grapefruit size, and could hardly walk. I spoke to him just asking if he had an infection and his owner said he had cancer... the dog was 7yrs old... he refused to have the dog PTS before he became too ill, and as a result died in his sleep at home.

As a dog walker I see quite a lot of un-neutered dogs, they are all aggressive, and it doesn't help when one of my dogs can be aggressive back, he was neutered at 2, now the owners think it was too late, and I agree. He is fine with bitches, but doesn't like black labs (neutered or not) or un-neutered and Border Terriers lol

It maybe that Hugo hasn't yet matured enough to become a humper or anything else. I'd get him done now, before he does.

Nice to see you back on here, how are the Twins?

[auburnalia]

Thanks Both. Ruth, Yes, I have met quite a few dogs in their adolescent phase who show signs of aggression/dominated play etc and I do politely tell the owners that its time for the snip. Hugo was in fact quite submissive as an adolescent, if he'd shown the slightest hit of aggression to another male he'd have been done already, as it is he is just a great big playful lump!! lol He very very occasionally gets barked at by other males but he's more than happy to submit and avoid for an easy life!

Julz, that's a shame that you've met quite a few aggressive entires, it might be that they are picking up on your dogs insecurities/testosterone levels and react? - I used to get that a lot with Tia, almost every dog we met would bark at her or something. It took me a while to realise that although she was silent, she was starting pretty much every argument!! Poor Tia. Bless Her. I am pretty confident in Hugo's behaviour, but totally get your point about testicular cancer. I didn't think it was common in dogs (unlike ovarian cancers in bitches) but I guess whether its common or not, if they don't have their testicals they cant get the cancer. Hummm.... its a good point! Which I suppose answers my question really. The other thing is will it change his personality at all by being done? I don't want his submissive, stay out of trouble, nature to become wimpy!!!! He's such a well balanced dog that I feel by altering his hormones it will alter how well balanced he is!

The twins are perfect, so entertaining now!! I was never ever a maternal person (much preferring animals to babies!) but they really are amazing!!! (I can say that at the moment as both are having their morning nap!!) :-D xx

[julz]

no, I don't think it will change his personality now... he's got enough testosterone in him now to keep it.. I think the possibility is now that the older he gets the braver he may get and that's when any aggression could start..

There are mainly 3 dogs that my clients dog doesn't *like* one is an older choc lab, a vizla whose owner is equally aggressive (maybe he should be done too??) and a Chow... him and the Chow are getting better.. his owner used to stand and shout obcenities to me, like keeping him under control, but what first started it was his dog charging mine... I kept telling him to keep walking so his dog would too, and now they are much better though he does still panic a bit and try to put dog on lead... we usually meet along a canal so not much room to pass each other.. main priority should be to get past each other safely, and not panic and fumble with the lead..

On another note, another dog we meet is a year old Dalmatian who was done at 6months, and never had a problem with him.. *mine* saw him the other day, and immediately wanted to play.. which is unusual as he's not the playing sort lol

the man with the vizla has met client with the dog before and literally hauled her dog off the canal path and into the canal... he is a choc lab but not a confident swimmer.

[thewondersquirrel]

Hi there.

Hope you don't mind me sharing my tuppence. We had our lab 'done' at around 7 months, soon after we got him (he'd lived with a family for the early part of his life, who sadly weren't able to keep him).

Thinking and talking through the options with our vet, for us it was far and away the right choice to make. We’d spent a while second-hand dog shopping (for want of a better term!) after making the decision to get a hound in our lives. There were so many in need of homes that neutering was high on the to-do list from the start. We wouldn’t have bred Jake and have no intention of ever not having him in our lives for as long as we’re lucky enough to have him. That’s not to say that life will always go to plan, though, and silly as it may sound I would worry far more if he were entire than not – there seem to be more and more working-type dogs being stolen these days and having his bits might just single him out for the wrong kind of attention 

Personality wise, he’s still every bit as full of bounce as he was, not to mention as keen to impress the ladies... He’s calmer generally – which may be down to age and having settled in to his new ‘pack’ as much as anything – but then he was generally a mild-mannered, polite sort of chap to begin with.

I did wonder if being 'done' might affect his physical development but I don’t think that’s common, even in younger dogs. Your vet should be able to give you a steer on the health side of things either way. If they’re worth their salt they’ll be thinking of what’s best for you and Hugo, not the prospect of a fee. If not, I’d be looking for a new vet..!

[auburnalia]

Thanks very much!

Well, I just spoke to my vet as I thought it can't hurt. And he actually agreed with me that Hugo doesn't need castrating from a behavioural point of view - he said being 2 he wont get any more or less testosterone driven at all, what I "might" find is other entire dogs taking exception to him more and more but he said in his opinion that is not a good reason for me to castrate my dog! If there were to have been any issues with Hugo's behaviour they would have shown themselves by now. He also said that he wouldn't anticipate any behaviour changes afterwards, obviously he cannot be certain, but Hugo is a well rounded dog and he wouldn't think he would get "wimpy" or anything else. He said he might get fat though!! I pointed out that I will never ever own a fat dog, I can be fat, but my dog is not. Pet hate of mine - that and dressing them in clothes!!!

However, he said from a health point of view he would always recommend it if you are not going to breed. By castrating they cannot get testicular cancer (although I was right, he said it is not very common) but what is common is prostate problems later in life and anal gland issues which would be eradicated by castrating. ultimately though he said it wouldn't be an issue keeping him entire. In his opinion it comes down to putting him through an op and aesthetic vs the possibility of him maybe getting a prostate problem in old age.......

Wondersquiral - you make a very good point about theft and being more desirable if entire, I had not considered that! And yes, you're right about my vets, I should have given them more credit!!

Thanks very much guys, I still don't 100% know whether I am doing the right thing but I have just made an appointment for him for the 18th March. Gives me time to really think it through loads!! I may have two 8 month old babies, but Hugo is still my baby and I have to know I am doing the right thing! It would almost be easier if he was humping everything in sight!!! lol

[ladyndibs]

I'd always had bitches and had them spayed but when we decided to get a greyhound we were advised to get a dog, they are apparently, there's no nice way to say it, a bit dim and we have quite a low wall and gate round the garden, we were advised a bitch would probably try to work out how to get over it but a dog wouldn't. As he was a rescue Nutty was neutered before we got him so I can't comment on any change in personality but with the amount of unwanted dogs around if i had any say in the matter all dogs and bitches would be done unless you could show a very good reason why not. I know this doesn't answer your question and no real comparison as greyhounds are known for their laid back nature but has never shown the slightest agression to anything, apart from a few rabbits that um.... are no more.

My daughter had twins five weeks ago today so I have an idea of how busy you must be but if you can find the time a few pics would be great.

[auburnalia]

Do you mean of the Twins or of Hugo?! lol

First born when in special care:



Here's one of all of them, when the girls were tiny!!:



And now:

Charlotte:



Sophie:



Snuggled ready for a dog walk:



Congratulations to your daughter, and to you of course!! Wow, 5 week old twins. I love love love my girls but I don't miss that. Tell her it does get easier, I promise!! Its lovely now they are 8 months old. I actually enjoy it, I wont lie, I hated it at first, loved the twins but couldn't understand what they wanted, which stressed me out. Now I have it all sussed (yeah right!!!!) Cook her lots of dinners and change as many nappies as you can, oh and throw the hoover around her house, she'll appreciate it! xxx

[julz]

Lovely pics Auburnalia....

[chantrelle]

love the pics. Beautiful!

On the subject of this post, I had my first Collie done at 6 months, mainly because he tried to rape the cat on the stairs. The cat was not impressed.
Our other Collie is 7 months old and having the chop on Friday. He keeps trying to 'hump' me when I'm tidying their beds etc. Like the cat, I'm not impressed either.

It's apparently been scientifically (sp?) proven that you should wait to have dogs castrated until they start cocking their leg to pee. This is because it means the tendons and ligaments have formed correctly.

x

[ladyndibs]

What gorgeous pictures, how tiny were they? Em was lucky hers were 6.1 & 6.13 so didn't need special care.

the funny thing is I offer ever couple of days to go over and help out but she always says if you want to come over you're welcome anytime but we don't need a hand, though she has said she might this week as they have both got colds.

Hugo is a bit of a looker too, love the picture of the three of them.

[bertie666]

omg those gorgeous pics are actually making me broody I always wanted twins can I steal them

on the dog front I think Id be more concerned about him later in life - I've found with two dogs I've had, who were neutered young, that got more aggressive/terratorial later on in life. My terrier who has been done humps our other dogs front leg when they get in the boot to go out but he's just excited lol. I didnt want him neutering as he's such a lovely example of the breed but was over ruled by parents shame as I've been offered several times for him.

[rosemaryhannah]

I have just had Ralph (Yellow Lab) neutered, as he was plainly finding his finding his sex drive a bit too much - if he had not, I would not. I have had both neutered and un-neutered dogs and they react to the surgery differently. Ralph who was operated on today, is very distressed indeed. In his case, I really did need to do it, but to be honest, I would not have, if I had not needed to.

[auburnalia]

Mar 3, 2014 18:20:59 GMT 1 ladyndibs said:

What gorgeous pictures, how tiny were they? Em was lucky hers were 6.1 & 6.13 so didn't need special care.

the funny thing is I offer ever couple of days to go over and help out but she always says if you want to come over you're welcome anytime but we don't need a hand, though she has said she might this week as they have both got colds.

Hugo is a bit of a looker too, love the picture of the three of them.

They were good weights at 5.6 and 6.13 but Charlotte decided she was going to crash, she found being born too much (natural, well we tried!) so we were rushed into theatre and I was knocked out so they could get them out very quickly by c-sec... was a whirlwind of horridness. I didn't meet Sophie for 3 hours and Charlotte for 6. And didn't get to hold Charlotte till she was off breathing apparatus the next day... But they bounced back very quickly and special care were amazing!

Well, if your daughter doesnt need help she's doing better than me..!! Good on her! Enjoy them, its really lovely!