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Post by troop on Feb 17, 2014 15:37:18 GMT 1
Lead manners. He has none  my back cannot take much more. He is "better" than he was but its such a long process. He can now walk next to me for a bit but then he will suddenly lunge like a loony so i stop (as fast as i can he is a feckin big strong dog) he stops and walks back round to my side and walks for few more strides by my side then BOING gone again AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i have fitted aharness so he not catching his neck anymore but owwwww im struggling. None of my others are this bad well ok Amber used to be but she was smaller and so long as she in her harness is lovely.  Everything else is going pretty good.   |
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Post by ruthp on Feb 17, 2014 17:55:07 GMT 1
Does he really understand where "heel" is? I had similar trouble with my collie, Dylan, and it was my fault because he genuinely didn't understand where I wanted him.
So, with the help of a great trainer, we told him where I wanted him to be, as follows:
1. Dog needs to understand clicker training. Do this in small sessions, only about five minutes at a time.
2. Imagine yourself standing in a circle with north directly in front of you. To begin, anywhere in the west hemisphere is good. So call the dog and as soon as he stops anywhere in that west semi circle click, and throw a treat outside the circle. He will then come back, but only click and throw a treat if he's in the west semi circle.
3. When he always comes back to the semi circle, reduce the target area to a quarter circle to the left of you. Always throw the treat outside the target area so that he has to move back to the right place for another reward. Keep reducing the target area until it's the size you want.
4. When he's reliably in the right place every time, change the rules again, so that he has to be facing forward beside you to get the reward. He'll work it out very quickly.
5. When he's worked out where the correct place is - beside you facing forwards - introduce your command word, and then start doing the same exercise while you are moving about, forwards or backwards.
It took less than a week for Dylan to " get" it using this method, after months of lead training with me stopping whenever he went forward. He just didn't know where the right place was.
The other thing I did was to make a lead with a trigger clip each end, so that I could attach it to the belt loop in the small of my back. This means if he does pull, he's pulling against my whole body weight rather than just one arm. He's not perfect, I don't do enough work with him, but he's a whole load better than he used to be.
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Post by janwilky on Feb 17, 2014 17:58:11 GMT 1
Owww poor you, he is gorgeous though  . Springers are notorious for it, they've just got too much enthusiasm for their own good haven't they. I've heard good reports on spaniel groups about the 'figure of eight lead' which is basically a slip lead with an extra loop over the nose - like this and this. You can make your own version out of a slip lead though I think the flat nylon ones are probably kinder than rope. |
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Post by portiabuzz on Feb 17, 2014 18:01:15 GMT 1
he is looking good troop, sorry no doggy experience to offer |
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Post by troop on Feb 17, 2014 19:33:00 GMT 1
Im sorry got confussled on the clicker training :/ will need to get that around my head.... Interesting i did attaxch harness on back and i looped the lead (leadrope) handle around his neck which did help. I think he "gets" it he just cannot contain his enthusiasm for more than a few strides and just boings off. Its the boinging off that is a problem as it jars my body quite badly. Yeah hje is ideal weight now looks fab great off lead and in house. He does seem to go loopy over my mum though poor mum cant visit without him boinging on her constantly, he doesnt do it with anyone else we have visiting lol. I have been doing off lead "find" "come" "sit" with him which he loves as i can whack the commands out at speed. He is learning stay during dinner times and has gone from zero control to sitting while i hold a short conversation before giving him the go ahead. Im well pleased with him such a quick brain gotta get him under control out and about but he is definately learning patience. Its just the lunging on lead. I cannot walk him with the other dogs as in i can walk everyone else together but its a nightmare with him to i have to take him alone or with only one of the others if im on my own. Oh i dont heel them either i just dont want them to pull. They all know (after first initial excitement pulling) not to get to the end of the lead "smile in the lead"  they can walk at heel when i have just one though its jut Milo doesnt quite have the control yet. Im not sure i can hold lead and clicker. I need two hands and full body weight (im heavy) and he can still drag me when he boings for a few steps. He is treat orientated though hence the good off lead work. But even off lead he walks by my side then boings off then comes back then boings off he is just SOOOOOOO happy LOL. |
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Post by troop on Feb 17, 2014 19:35:47 GMT 1
Right figure of eight lead looks good. I will keep at it and try to get him to understand where he needs to be. I allow and praise when he is by my side or even just a wee bit ahead but i do stop when he gets to end otherwise i would end up on the floor in a heap. He spins around in a circle and comes right back to my side when i stop i presume this is what the other people have taught him? Or is that just his way of carrying on moving?
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Post by ruthp on Feb 17, 2014 19:40:34 GMT 1
Sorry Troop, should have explained - all that exercise is done off lead somewhere safe, so trying to hold clicker and lead isn't an issue. It's just about getting the dog to work out for himself where the good place is, and then lots of reward when he does. As you say, it can be very difficult to manage clicker and lead, but of course you don't need to use a clicker, a voice click or word will do. It's just the principle and timing that matters, as with all shaping training.
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Post by Hannah on Feb 17, 2014 19:45:45 GMT 1
I used a Halti (like a doggy headcollar) for my rescue dog who was hopeless on the lead, it also worked really well on my friend's little lurcher. I found with a harness that goes round the body they could pull more. Ruthp's idea also sounds good |
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Post by julz on Feb 17, 2014 21:04:01 GMT 1
get a bungee lead.. it has elastic going through it, so he will be able to pull only so far, then when you pull back, the lead does the work for you. I would not go for a halti, they have been proven to injure the dog's neck irrepairably as unlike a horses headcollar, they pull the head round putting the neck into an un-natural position... course this is only over long term use.
a good gadget is the canny collar.
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Post by janwilky on Feb 17, 2014 21:44:22 GMT 1
But even off lead he walks by my side then boings off then comes back then boings off he is just SOOOOOOO happy LOL. He's a spaniel - boing - that's what they do - boing - all the time - boing, boing, boing Sounds like you're doing well with the training though, so I'm sure you'll get there in time. If it's any consolation, Scamp was only a diddy working cocker - 20 kilos or so - but he did that lunging to the end of the lead thing whenever he saw, heard or scented a pheasant. Which was very often as we live in the middle of a shoot. I'm pretty strong and reasonably fit but he could still pull me right off my feet on occasion. Boing  |
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Post by janwilky on Feb 17, 2014 21:50:13 GMT 1
get a bungee lead.. it has elastic going through it, so he will be able to pull only so far, then when you pull back, the lead does the work for you. I would not go for a halti, they have been proven to injure the dog's neck irrepairably as unlike a horses headcollar, they pull the head round putting the neck into an un-natural position... course this is only over long term use. a good gadget is the canny collar. I think that's why a lot of trainers are recommending the figure of eight now, rather than the Halti collar, as the FoE doesn't pull the head around. I haven't used one though so have no direct experience. I don't like Haltis, it was one of the few things that ever really upset Scamp. A harness was no use on him either, he just used it to brace against and pulled even harder. |
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Post by troop on Feb 17, 2014 22:34:00 GMT 1
Oh my LOL ... .... yes boing is what he does best BOING loony! He can be on the ground and bounce above your head no trouble at all hahaah mind you i still had to help him over a wall yesterday he got very confused it was funny as heck as my old terrier staff x just jumped past him and was like "woah whats going on here" . Seeing as he my OH dog i seem to be spending all the time with him and he seems to have stolen Harry, you might recall not long ago we were going to have Harry pts as he bit OH but it seems an understanding has been reached and now he takes Mr H to work with him quite often and Harry is now the garage mascot. Milo is too BOING and leaps on things and steals tools hahah
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Post by Hannah on Feb 17, 2014 22:37:30 GMT 1
But the idea of the Halti if used correctly is that it helps train the dog and so long term use isn't required  Pleased Harry has found a "job" troop |
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Post by julz on Feb 18, 2014 10:55:15 GMT 1
Haltis are on their way out. They rarely fit properly and the nose part rides up into the eye, that can cause irritation. it doesn't take long for signs of neck injury to appear.
Canny Collars though are designed to lead the dog from a natural position (behind the head, not under the chin as in a halti) it is a normal collar that does up round dogs neck, then an extra loop attached to the collar part loops over the nose, and does up behind the head that your lead attaches to with two D rings.. The idea is (like Montys dually) it only comes into play when the dog pulls.. It encourages loose lead walking (which is what we all strive to get) but is there to stop the pulling should dog get excited.
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Post by janwilky on Feb 18, 2014 11:13:45 GMT 1
Haltis are on their way out. They rarely fit properly and the nose part rides up into the eye, that can cause irritation. it doesn't take long for signs of neck injury to appear. Canny Collars though are designed to lead the dog from a natural position (behind the head, not under the chin as in a halti) it is a normal collar that does up round dogs neck, then an extra loop attached to the collar part loops over the nose, and does up behind the head that your lead attaches to with two D rings.. The idea is (like Montys dually) it only comes into play when the dog pulls.. It encourages loose lead walking (which is what we all strive to get) but is there to stop the pulling should dog get excited. Ha, that's funny Julz I just googled Canny Collar and it turns out we're pretty much talking about the same thing Canny Collar is a brand name for a type of figure of eight lead. Great minds and all that |
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my back cannot take much more. He is "better" than he was but its such a long process. He can now walk next to me for a bit but then he will suddenly lunge like a loony so i stop (as fast as i can he is a feckin big strong dog) he stops and walks back round to my side and walks for few more strides by my side then BOING gone again AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i have fitted aharness so he not catching his neck anymore but owwwww im struggling. None of my others are this bad well ok Amber used to be but she was smaller and so long as she in her harness is lovely. 
. Springers are notorious for it, they've just got too much enthusiasm for their own good haven't they. I've heard good reports on spaniel groups about the 'figure of eight lead' which is basically a slip lead with an extra loop over the nose - like 
they can walk at heel when i have just one though its jut Milo doesnt quite have the control yet. Im not sure i can hold lead and clicker. I need two hands and full body weight (im heavy) and he can still drag me when he boings for a few steps. He is treat orientated though hence the good off lead work. But even off lead he walks by my side then boings off then comes back then boings off he is just SOOOOOOO happy LOL.
