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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 10:05:41 GMT 1
Ok so it's a few weeks now since Mac was put to sleep and I knew there'd be adjustments happening at home with the two girls.. They idolised him but also considered him their leader and protector. I've kept the girls busy with toys games and exercise.. Being careful to be equal but continuing as before to keep their routines the same etc. Eile missed mac terribly spending the first week barking at his kennel, I knew she would, she's always been on mild calmers as vet says hyperactive ADD (friend with autistic kid says they carbon copy if each other!) anyway when off her calmers she tends to scrap a bit with Kizi, gets rough, play turns to fight quick etc but the calmers have helped a lot, this week she's getting a bit extra but they are fighting a lot  It was over food, but now just because one bumped off the other... It's escalating and I don't know what to do.. 2 nights ago it was because they had their kongs and got too close which shouldn't happen but hey oh they are dogs.. However a little tif as normal is now a full on scrap, I had to break them up and pin them down arms length away until they stopped snarling... Couldn't keep them apart otherwise... Just now only way was to pick one up which I know is wrong too... I know it's a leadership issue.. Eile being the one who thinks she should take over command and kizi saying no chance, but it used to be Eile starting scraps and Kizi ending them, but now they are very equal in it all.. Scary... Help.... What can I do? I'm scared going out and leaving them, tho when they are in bed there's no toys or anything anyway but how can I help 2 dogs settle into a new routine.. I hate the thought of being 'leader' etc but not sure how I can enforce that anymore that I do.. Or am I just expecting too much too soon? Vet did expect Eile to take a few months to settle again which I understand but mean while I really don't want them hurting each other? Extreme last resort is crates.. But I don't have any.. Does time out work for dogs anyway? Usually when they are scrapping keeping them apart and then once adrenalin lowers distracting works, but it's getting more frequent.. Sorry blabbering, I hate seeing my girls fight but am too close to it emotionally to think straight... |
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Post by troop on Jan 17, 2014 11:58:37 GMT 1
sorry this will be a bit of a rush of ramble. Keep them seperate when you are not there feed them seperate etc for now. You will need to be the strong leader and make sure they know to look towards you rather than letting them decide which one of them is taking over in an aggressive way. Can you pinpoint who is starting it? Who was above previously? Think carefully and see what you come up with. Try not to molly coddle them at minute. Dont shower them with affection in view of eachother. Keep calm and quiet. If a fight looks like it might start try to remove the one that started it (or does that cause the other to attack?) Time out can work but you need to take out the one that started the arguement. Watch for the staring at eachother stance before any growling escalates. It will take time but try to keep calm as you can. (hard i know) I have been an emotional mess and my dogs know it one has become quite clingy another quite hyper and stressed another has started arguements but they all know if i say so then that grumbling stops. But if i am not strong enough to deal with it all heck would break loose. Take a step back keep in touch with your vet and if your dogs can cope with exercise together still then do that as much as you are able. Seperating the dogs for too long can also cause issues especially if they meet head on. Sorry ramble im sure you will get loads of advice xx
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Post by troop on Jan 17, 2014 12:02:05 GMT 1
Are they still ok overnight or whilst away? I imagine its over food and toys rather than anything else. Keep contriol over these items. You dont have to be a mean leader its just a case of being quiet and calm and firm over how much attention and stuff they get from you. They should sort things out themselves and you may find its just an initial caffufle due to the big change
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 15:15:38 GMT 1
So far they are ok while I am out or in bed. They go into the hall where they have huge bed because mac was there too, so can lie 2+ meters apart but lie side by side.. It's a leader + jealousy thing.. I know that much.. Argh I'd love someone to give me a day off haha awful I know! It's been a tough few weeks I guess.. I am being very careful to not give too much cuddles as such right now, before Kizi was always the one to get more cuddles oops haha because eile was obsessed with mac anyway... Plus you see, (my fault) until the past few weeks I was sleeping down stairs with them.. Because of lots of reasons, so now kizi may feel a bit neglected as far as she's concerned... but now rather than divide my attention I am being careful to do more play, balls etc as equally as I can.. Too much exercise outside is hard because usually it results in eile being more wound up than before, she needs to run but kizi isn't able as is waiting on hip surgery.. There'll be no more kongs for a while though... I think things will settle again.. I just had to vent this morning.. I've always been boss, I can't even pin point who's starting it at the time, there's no warning even, it's equal and the viciousness is equal though last two times eile stopped first when I stepped in.. So I guess kizi may be feeling a slight lack of love.......... And that eile is getting too big for her boots... Hmmm... This morning when I had to grab one it was any one and it happened to be kizi and even after I grabbed her she was still growling at eile but eile had stopped.. So it's kizi.. Hmm.. Separating them won't work.. Eile would become way way too stressed.. Ok, thanks.. I think I need to lay down the law with kizi a little.. Don't know how though.. I mean she'll do anything asked of her.. I can't do training with her, I do and she knows it all.. I do know she hates loud noises like clap hands so maybe I get a whistle to try stop the fights rather than physically intervene where possible? Then distract with going outside or something? I don't want to punish, and obviously not after the event, but I feel I need to find a way to 'teach' them not to?  What do you think?? |
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 15:21:17 GMT 1
And actually, kizi is being extremely clingy today.. Bad bad owner for not catching this sooner..
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Post by troop on Jan 17, 2014 15:48:45 GMT 1
not bad owner at all and it sounds like you got things under a kind of control so do not worry too much. You dont need to punish as such. I do find a time out either out of room or withholding attention for a short spell works. This sounds like i am a horrible owner but i dont think i am. I have to control everyone as best i can and 4 is a handful and 5 with 2 that detest eachother even harder when they are in vicinity of each other. I think it sounds like Kizi is trying for top dog and sounds like Eili was second in command to Mac and Kizi is next in line to you hence is not a happy bunny about it? Yep try not to get in with the fight injuries are no good to you and most dog fights are all noise worry when it goes quiet. They should sort themselves out without too much trouble but keep an eye on things the more arguements they have the worse it may get.
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Post by gwenoakes on Jan 17, 2014 18:04:24 GMT 1
Just a thought and I have used this with good effect, but try a water pistol aimed at whoever starts it. Like I said, just a thought.
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Post by portiabuzz on Jan 17, 2014 18:17:28 GMT 1
sorry your struggling  it must be tough on all 3 of you xxx |
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 18:31:28 GMT 1
Just a thought and I have used this with good effect, but try a water pistol aimed at whoever starts it. Like I said, just a thought. Hehe water pistol is a fun game haha Simply ignoring kizi blatantly, is enough for her to know she's done wrong, I think that's why she's so clingy today because I shunned her this morning after latest fight.. Eile on the other hand is not so clued in and goes through life in a bit of a goldfish daze.. Ha! Heck she's still not even house trained.. But, a lot better than she was! It's a daily lesson for her.. There was a friend here the other night and I think that may have added to the jealousy and added fuel, he did say I needed to let them sort it out.. But but but I don't want them being hurt either... I do of course take away any toy or anything that may be involved etc... I guess I just gotta stick at it.. I don't know how you cope with more than 2/3...!!! Someone did offer me a puppy saying it would be good for me and a distraction for the girls.. Eeeeeekkkk no!!!! Imagine what a puppy would learn coming into the middle of that!!! |
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 18:32:27 GMT 1
Eile is pronounced Ella, but the spelling, eile is the Irish word for other by the way  kizi was here first hehe |
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Post by troop on Jan 17, 2014 18:39:58 GMT 1
I thought it was Ellie or Ella ( i like) . See now i would presume Kizi would take the leadership role. Mostly its a quiet life here with only the odd spat all voice and no clout. Mind you my mum visited yesterday and Milo took a great liking to her very embarrassing as he was on her lap and climbing over her shoulders.... he is usually very polite for a young springer but no poor mom got it. Cling on in there sounds like you got it going alright.
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2014 18:43:14 GMT 1
Kizi is used to being the centre of attention... But eile used to look up to mac in a protector way, if eile believed there was danger outside she'd call mac, so I assumed she would try take over that aspect as watch dog... I dunno.. I'm goin for a nice hot shower haha maybe I'll give them one after then they'll sleep haha
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Post by julz on Jan 18, 2014 13:03:18 GMT 1
I too was going to suggest feeding them separetly. I have a pup staying, he used to live with a beagle (he's a basset) and also used to bolt his food.. then move on to tara's.. (or try too) (he also has separation anxiety) Now i feed him in the hall with the door closed.. he's slowed down his eating and is now comfortable with the door closed until Tara is finished her dinner. I don't think it's about "leadership" it's about pecking order... am assuming that Mac was at the top of the pecking order? so therefore the two girls are now fighting it out... just becareful when giving them treats, that they are not too close to each other, they get each treat at exactly the same time, or are asked to do something to get the treat, ie, paw, sit... etc.. also one of these may help to calm the situation and help them feel more at ease www.amazon.co.uk/Adaptil-Diffuser-Pack-Appeasing-Pheromone/dp/B001A2X950 |
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Post by julz on Jan 18, 2014 13:07:51 GMT 1
And actually, kizi is being extremely clingy today.. Bad bad owner for not catching this sooner.. you are not a bad owner... no one could have seen this coming... dogs react different to death... it's how you deal with it now that matters. Gwen, shooting a dog with a hose or waterpistol does not solve anything.. most dogs see it as a game, not as a punishment.... weather it be training or sorting out a problem like this then positive reinforcement will go a long way, than punishing the behaviour you don't want. |
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Post by kizi on Jan 18, 2014 15:32:44 GMT 1
Still fine at feeding time, I stand over them anyway always have, eile is funny about food, she'd eat a stone if you handed it to her but food in a bowl... Nah! I don't leave food down, if it's not eaten it's taken away.
Eile is a VERY high energy dog, always on the go non stop so it's controlling that energy now again will be key.. Kizi likes her comfort and would sleep on the back of the sofa all day!!
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kizi was here first hehe 