Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 5, 2013 0:49:24 GMT 1
I don't have a lot of details yet, but I have been asked to help find new homes for 2 chestnut thoroughbred mares in North Essex. Through no fault of their own (domestic human issues), they urgently need new homes. One is 12 and the other is 24.
I am expecting details and photos tomorrow. I mention it now so that anyone who might be able to help can start thinking about it.
Many thanks!
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 5, 2013 13:43:50 GMT 1
I got more details about the thoroughbred mares today. It looks like they are somewhere between rideable and not rideable! I think the younger one needs restarting and the older one may be able to manage a bit of light hacking, subject to whether it causes stiffness or not. Can anyone find a space in their hearts and their fields for these two lovely ladies? Please!!!!!! I know there are worse fates than death, but I would be so sorry to see these two get shot at the end of the week because there is no one with the skills to save the younger and the heart to save the older. I have an old rescued polo pony myself who is such a blessing to have in my life. I am sure that old Dilly would be a similar blessing to someone else! If you can help, please get in touch quickly as time is short and I have known cases like this move faster than predicted...and not in a good way. This is Gemma. She is a 15.2 thoroughbred. She basically got left at the yard she is currently at because the previous owner couldn't look after her anymore. That was around 2 years ago, and no one has really done anything with her since. She gets a bit of choke sometimes and the instructor up there thinks there is something 'anatomically' wrong with her, but we dont know what. One of the girls tried tacking her up some months ago and she hated it and reared etc.... but to be honest i wonder whether it was done with the care it could have been, u know?... especially as she has hardly been handled. the manager says she is 12, but would need to fully confirm that from her passport, which he has.. but I cant hassle him at the moment as his wife is in hospital and things are all a bit sensitive... This is Dilly. She is 22, ex race horse thoroughbred. She is a very dear character. Everyone loves her at the yard. There are conflicting views about whether she is ridable... one of the girls thinks she would be fine for light hacks, others believe it wouldn't be appropriate. She gets very stiff in the legs.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 6, 2013 0:13:40 GMT 1
These two have been turned down by quite a few horse santuaries today. It's not looking good for them
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Post by clipclop on Aug 6, 2013 7:32:01 GMT 1
I'm sorry but you said it yourself - there are fates worse than death.
If the yard has looked after one of them for 2 years, why should they suddenly be diminished of responsibility? Both look lovely but both sound unrideable (or would need a very experienced person to try) and the harsh reality is that being chestnut, tb, and mares, they come under the stereotypical umbrella of what to avoid.
If one has something possibly anatomically wrong with her, is it fair to try and encourage someone to home her on the chance she'll be rideable?
You've seen yourself from ringing rescues that everywhere is full to bursting and the lack of response to this thread shows how times have sadly changed. Far too often now we are seeing horses that have been 'rescued from the bullet' ending up in awful predicaments as they are being taken on by people who put their heart before their heads.
Whilst I would love to see these girls go to loving new homes, I would hope that this will only be the case if they are proven to be suitably experienced and long term as I'd hate to hear of them being passed on again, especially the older one.
Sent from my C6603 using proboards
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kanga
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Post by kanga on Aug 6, 2013 8:21:45 GMT 1
I think passing them on is questionable Caroline. You're always so hopeful and kind. PTS might be a kinder, safer end.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 6, 2013 12:29:49 GMT 1
If one has something possibly anatomically wrong with her, is it fair to try and encourage someone to home her on the chance she'll be rideable? It would be lovely if there is someone who loves horses enough to give a home to one they can't get anything out of. I am equally inclined to judge the yard that is booting out these 2 horses and don't care if that is feet first with blood running down the ramp. It makes me extremely angry. But rescue is a constant battle against the evils of horrible people. And we learn to be polite to the bad people in order to get the animals to safety. However flawed the people are who throw animals out, the animals deserve better and they deserve life. A hundred years ago, horses were shot as soon as they could no longer work and retirement was rare. Back then, it was real work - transporting people and carts or carriages. Nowadays, horses are kept largely to massage egos and fulfill fantasies. Yet when they can't do that anymore, people are now just as ready to shoot them. I think that says something rather unpleasant about the human race and the current state of our relationship with horses. Human's may think that only the horses are the loosers in this state of affairs, but actually humans are loosers too. We may not loose our lives over it, but we lose out on the opportunity to have a very special loving and spiritual relationship with magnificent beings. Its hard to find words for what relationships with horses have given me, but I pity anyone who hasn't experienced it. That's the human cost of a materialistic and ego-driven approach to horses.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 6, 2013 18:39:20 GMT 1
These horses are now dead. As often happens in these cases, the owner had them killed sooner than they said they would. Time is so precious and this thread being moved to "Personal Charities and Missions" may have cost the horses their lives. It certainly didn't help.
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Post by julz on Aug 8, 2013 11:18:34 GMT 1
Your choice of word usage isn't very nice, and comes to me with a huge guilt trip...
If I was a lotto winner I would have them all even the old unrideable ones, but it's just not possible, and in the case of these ones is it fair to either them or the rescuer?
The 12 yr old would have needed health checks before any restarting could be done.
the 24 yr old, would need similar checks and probably different supplements before considering weather or not riding was suitable. At 24 horse has had good innings and led a happy life before being destroyed before any arthritis became too bad.
I know you are passionate about this, but you really need to weigh up what you can help with and what you can't. Sorry.
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Post by lesleyking1 on Aug 8, 2013 18:19:33 GMT 1
As a testament to these ladies perhaps a discussion on the over production of racers could be constructive. I didn't notice if these two came out of racing? having a chestnut TB mare I can vouch for the challenges they pose and mine is about the most spoilt horse in the world and I love everything about her yet because she's not a safe ride I am constantly told to move her on, If I won the lottery I would save every failed racer I came across, especially the mares as they do seem to struggle the most.
RIP girls.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 8, 2013 20:34:36 GMT 1
Your choice of word usage isn't very nice, and comes to me with a huge guilt trip... I was quite clear about who should feel guilty about not having done enough to help us find a home or rescue space for these two i.e. the Administrators who moved the thread. They knew what they were doing and I thought it uncharitable and unhelpful. It is extremely upsetting to do your best to help save some horses and then for them to be killed. If someone has done something to act against your best efforts, it is not only understandable to be angry and upset about it, it is reasonable. If someone does something that has a negative effect, they need to be told about it and asked to take a different course so they dont continue doing it. This is not the first time that a rescue attempt has been frustrated by threads being moved in this way and this time I felt I had to express how harmful and serious this is. If I was a lotto winner I would have them all even the old unrideable ones, but it's just not possible, and in the case of these ones is it fair to either them or the rescuer? We all feel that way, I am sure. But we must all cut our cloth according to our means and only take in what animals we can afford to keep. The old mare is no different from my own old rescued polo mare. Both are old horses that are probably best given a nice retirement. There are plenty of people who love horses enough to take one in and look after it without wanting to get riding out of it. And those people are amply rewarded by the pleasure of having a gorgeous old horse in their lives. My own old rescue mare has been a complete joy and pleasure. I am sure this old mare would have been an equal blessing to someone else, for as long as her health allowed her. The 12 yr old would have needed health checks before any restarting could be done. the 24 yr old, would need similar checks and probably different supplements before considering weather or not riding was suitable. At 24 horse has had good innings and led a happy life before being destroyed before any arthritis became too bad. Obviously - but that's no need to shoot them! I know you are passionate about this, but you really need to weigh up what you can help with and what you can't. Sorry. I will help all that I can...and those I fail to help save I obviously can't. That's never easy to accept, but it goes with the territory with rescue work. Very occasionally matters are taken out of the hands of the rescue team by owners or pound kennels and the animal is PTS. It's only happened a few times to me (twice now with horses and once with a dog) and each one has probably lain more heavy on my heart than the ones I have been able to save. Times are hard here in the UK and the state of rescue is horrific. I have seen a massive change in the last couple of years. Now it is almost impossible to get a horse into rescue - and similarly hard to get a dog into rescue. Two years ago, it was possible to sit down with a pound destruction list of 20 dogs and find rescue spaces for them at shelters across the country within as little as 24 hours. It was hard, but possible. Now it is hard to find a space for a single dog. The reality is that they are now being destroyed in massively more numbers than they used to - and the same is true for horses. I think that, proportionately, things are worse for horses because economic factors hit them more powerfullly. So people are getting more and more hardened to what is happening to horse in need in this country and more and more prepared to accept the destruction of individuals. Someone once wrote that "men's hearts will fail them" in this times and I am afraid that is what is happening. I don't want to end up like that. I don't want to throw in the towel and stop trying. If all the rescue people did that, there would be tens of thousands more animals getting destroyed each year. I want to encourage others also to hold on to their sense of what is worth fighting and trying for. As the starfish man said "It made a difference to that one".
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Post by julz on Aug 9, 2013 8:13:21 GMT 1
It seems to me that you want every animal saved regarless of the situation.. If I said I have a dog with really bad agression issues and I was going to have him PTS would you also try to rehome him for me? As an owner that would not be a responsible thing for me to do, to hand over a dog with issues to some else who believes he should not be destroyed.
My ex BIL had his Rotty destroyed after she bit someone. He ran boarding kennels and had a separate unit for RSPCA dogs. His dog randomly bit an owner picking up his dog... It broke his heart to do it, but his dogs got one chance. As an ex dog handler at Dartmoor Prison there is little this man doesn't know about dogs or behaviour.
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Caroline
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Post by Caroline on Aug 9, 2013 11:49:23 GMT 1
It seems to me that you want every animal saved regarless of the situation.. If I said I have a dog with really bad agression issues and I was going to have him PTS would you also try to rehome him for me? As an owner that would not be a responsible thing for me to do, to hand over a dog with issues to some else who believes he should not be destroyed. In that situation, we normally send the dog to our behaviouralist kennels for assessment and behavioural modification therapy. Our behaviouralist specialises in this sort of reprogramming and has been doing it for decades with great success. The dogs can normally be rehomed after this process - to homes that have been carefully vetted and undergone training with the behaviouralist to teach them to maintain a lifestyle which will keep the dog balanced and as unlikely to bite as any other dog. It's a rare dog that cannot be sorted out if someone has the expertise, time, willingness and commitment to do so. I don't say that we can never PTS, but a willingness to try very hard not to means that it is rare that it is necessary.
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Post by Cameo on Aug 10, 2013 10:43:41 GMT 1
It is, of course, a great shame that these two horses were put to sleep. It is good that you Caroline, made efforts to find them homes. However, I think you were wrong to apportion blame on the administrators who moved this thread. You cannot say that had the thread been left, the horses would still be alive. You also cannot have guaranteed that these horses would have found responsible and happy homes. You obviously care passionately about animals and have strong opinions about the values that people have about their treatment and care. Quite rightly. There is much that we don't know about these horses, and the small amount of information that you were able to glean, didn't present horses who would be necessarily able to have an easy transition to any kind of comfortable or useful life. I'm not saying a horse has to "work", but as we human breed these animals and to be honest, use them for our own ends (be it riding, breeding, feeling happy or comfort), then we need to be responsible about what we do with them if and when issues occur. We humans breed too many horses. We must be responsible for their comfortable lives, and dignified ends. A TB mare in her twenties is going to need a lot of time care and money spending on her. Especially in the wetter and colder months. In the real world, people who can do this are few and far between now. We must recognise our limitations. An early teens mare with issues about riding, is also going to take time, money and effort...that many people just don't have. Although there are many good intentions. It may well be that for these two thoroughbreds, a quick end is kinder than standing out in all weathers, feeling stiff and uncomfortable, or getting stressed by a well-meaning person trying to solve the 12 year old's issues. Yes, that one person might have been out there. Yes, you tried to find one, but the guidelines of this DG are clear about what posts go where, and from what I read, the administrators read, considered, and responded to your requests despite your thread being in the "wrong" section. Discussion goes both ways. Blaming them for the mares' deaths is wrong. The only person responsible for that is the person who made that decision.
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Post by Lorraine L on Aug 12, 2013 15:17:51 GMT 1
Goodness Caroline, I have only just seen this thread and am shocked to hear you say that the admin of IH should feel guilty about the outcome of the horses.
As sad as I am to learn that they were pts, I am convinced that much more could have been done to find them help ? There are thousands of forums which could have shared the information / many welfare agencies etc. it seems to me that the ' timeframe ' was to blame and not one forum where the viewings (regardless of category ) is relatively low compared to some like Horse & Hound etc.
I come across pleas for homing horses like this regularly, as we all do. I too wish I could save every one of them but please don't make other animal lovers feel bad because its an impossible ask.
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Post by Jenny (& the boys) on Aug 12, 2013 15:36:05 GMT 1
I'm actually quick shocked to read this on the DG and hope to God that the Admin of this site has a thick skin.
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