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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 17, 2013 11:00:04 GMT 1
the main question people want answered is 'when you have an overweight horse - how can you ensure you feed enough fibre without him putting on weight?' on the same lines, in the winter, people might leave their horse at 5 or 6 pm happy that he has a 'good haynet' - not realising that he's finished it by 8 pm!
Do you have any suggestions that might ensure a horse has access to either low calorie fibre (or a system of really slowing his eating down) so he's still got a little something to munch even at 7 am the next morning.
How many people have used straw and were you happy with result? Is chopped or long best? I don't like haynets tied up generally as not good for teeth or backs - if horses don't have shoes on, small holed nets in a big tub work well. Hay can be soaked for 6 hours to reduce calories. I know 15 hh Pie will get through two small holed full haynets a night - I might try him with three tonight and see if he still manages to polish them off - I suspect he will.
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Post by mags on Jan 17, 2013 11:39:44 GMT 1
If you haven't seen it yet, there's a wiki page where people can upload their ideas for "slow feeders": paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/page/Slow+FeedersThere's a whole variety, all aimed at prolonging the time it takes the horse to eat his hay. You've already listed two ways to keep the fibre going and the weight in check: 1) slow down consumption 2) feed something with lower feed value (straw/soaked hay). I'd add two more: Automated feeders that will allow access to small portions of hay at intervals (also some examples on the wiki page), and more exercise! Automated feeders are usually really expensive if bought (and not a lot of options on the market), and DIY is difficult. But I think people sometimes forget that if they exercise their horses more, they can feed more hay and still keep the weight in check.
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Post by marianne on Jan 17, 2013 12:45:33 GMT 1
I only bring mine in when the weather's really bad - and that's not nearly as often as in the UK! - and on those occasions I do hang haynets up, even though I'm aware of the long-term effects on backs and teeth (hoping that occasional nets cause less damage).
I use trawler nets for my two heavies (percheron x comtois), they are massive and it generally takes them 8 hours to get through a net each. With ordinary haynets it seemed I was going out and refilling every couple hours ...
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Post by jill on Jan 17, 2013 15:25:13 GMT 1
I fed a lot of straw several years ago when we lived miles away from anywhere decent hay was grown. Any I could find to buy was prohibitively expensive due to the transport costs. It worked really well, especially as it was nice and bright and clean, but you do have to be careful with horses who are likely to be prone to wind problems, it did lead to some coughing. I feed very late cut haylage in racks similar to haybars now, and because they do pull a bit out as it is loose, they then spend the rest of the night picking it out of their beds near the racks. There is NEVER a totally hay free stable in the morning. But I am lucky in that I grow my own haylage and can afford a little wastage.
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Post by ruthp on Jan 17, 2013 17:48:01 GMT 1
I have put a small holed haynets inside Elim-a-nets, and both Bali and Holly still have some left in the morning. I give Holly another less difficult net about half full as she needs a little bit more hay, but Bali only gets one of these double nets, and is doing really well. She is losing weight (she needed to) but she is showing no signs of the ulcers from which she has previously suffered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 17:58:34 GMT 1
I have put a small holed haynets inside Elim-a-nets, and both Bali and Holly still have some left in the morning. That's reminded me that's what I did for Henry when they were in overnight for Talin to be starved for a scope. I was amazed at how much hay Henry had left by morning. Something that nearly caught me out recently - not that it's an answer to the question - is that some haylage can have a signficantly lower fibre content than hay so to maintain their fibre intake you end up feeding more calories.
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Post by penny70 on Jan 17, 2013 18:11:37 GMT 1
The few times a year that my shoe-less fatties are in, I use 2 small holed haylage nets inside one another, filled to bursting with a mix of hay and straw and then made into a hay pillow which I chuck onto the floor of the stable so it is rather difficult to get anything out of. I'll go back next morning (or that evening) and find a wee bit left in the pillow, so they have had enough to eat all night, but never run out. Works for us!
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Post by ladyndibs on Jan 17, 2013 18:18:07 GMT 1
Mine are out so my comments don't really count but mine have access to straw winter and summer, I generally put it in small holed nets, if they want it they will make the effort and there's less wastage. All three from time to time will leave grass and hay to stand and eat the straw which though they shouldn't really have is wheat straw, I tried oat straw, bought 50 bales and they really weren't keen, they were emptying the wheat straw from smalled holed nets rather than eat the oat straw in large holed nets or loose so it was back to wheat.
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Post by jill on Jan 17, 2013 18:55:15 GMT 1
And I forgot to add, get some really late cut hay/haylage. Mine has been August a couple of years and it doesn/'t make them fat
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Post by Catrin on Jan 17, 2013 18:55:33 GMT 1
Things that they feed to donkeys, who do not need rich diets, might work for small fat horses: oat or barley straw, twigs and cardboard.
Cardboard has to be untainted of course, the Donkey Sanctuary gets theirs in rolls, direct from a cardboard manufacturer. The fibres in cardboard are totally indigestible to horses and can swell in the stomach. It is also very difficult to chew effectively, so although it keeps your pony occupied, and fills its stomach, he could swallow lumps and get choke, so you might have to wet it or shred it! I cannot imagine how you persuade a pony to eat it, but apparently donkeys do.
Twigs, you need a wood to collect them from, fortunately we have one and ash was the favourite in the summer when we cut it. I wouldn't recommend them in the stable — you trip over a lot, though horses with three feet always on the ground step over — we had quite long pieces on the yard for the two fat horses, while the two skinnies and the normal were in the field or stable overnight.
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Post by shan on Jan 17, 2013 22:45:06 GMT 1
Welllll..... As we have so little grass in the field, and haven't had since November, Sandy dropped some weight (great!). She was going in most nights and she has about 24lb of hay per night. I had various different hays but usually coarse bales. I managed to find oat straw and bought four bales but she picked all the hay out and the oat was left in the haynet... (made quite nice bedding eventually!) she eats her wheat straw bedding and recently has refused good hay in preference to the sort of stuff that looks really poor & that I'd possibly give to a cow; I also scatter treats and chuck in a swede or turnip at night but she only gets one small feed a day...she hasn't put on any weight even since she's been kept in 24/7 for the last 10 days or so which is quite surprising, but good. So in answer to your question, if they'll eat oat/barley straw I'd go for a mix of that & hay and I'd scatter some fibre nuts around so they have something to 'hunt' for.
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Post by june on Jan 17, 2013 23:05:52 GMT 1
Trickle nets work really well for some horses. I have two who get two trickle nets each night. They usually have most of one full each morning and have eaten one. They've lost weight on that regime. I've got another who can't work them at all. Two of the older trickle nets I have have holes in them so she gets those. If I give her a new one without holes it is still full in the morning.
Putting a small holed haynet inside another small holed haynet works pretty well but is a bit of a pain. Soaking hay works really well but again is a pain. Soaked hay is heavy, freezes in weather like we have now, and goes off quickly in summer but it does do the trick if you can cope with the hassle.
I've tried mixing hay with straw and that works pretty well too. Most of mine will pick out the hay and leave the straw but that slows them down and helps with weight loss. I've heard negative things on what is sprayed on straw thought to ripen the grain for harvest so that has put me off somewhat. I've also heard that if too many grains are left on it it can be quite high in calories. I don't know how true any of these reports are and don't know how to get accurate information so I've stopped feeding straw for now.
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Post by kizi on Jan 17, 2013 23:24:01 GMT 1
I also don't like Haynets and osteo has agreed its not good but I use them at the moment while I have a few in at night. The 3 are terrible for dragging their hay onto the bed and then won't eat it so better of two evils is I tie the Haynets low so their head is not up or pulling up.. We have no shoes though. I have small hole nets but they are very big nets and if I pack them well they last. They come in about 5pm, I check them again at 9 or 10 and they have maybe just over half left, by the next morning they always have a bit left.. Once someone else filled them and they were gone quicker! She was too mean with the hay! When those ponies are out by day they don't have hay outside as they were not eating it.. But I grow my own so know they are safe to have a bit more than bought stuff because I always let it grow a bit longer than the rules say! I let it go to seed, and the grass is taller and much more stalky than what you buy.. It's mostly just fibre... Perfect for good doer ponies!! 5 years down the road of doing my own haylege that way and it works really well so they are almost never without food. It's also horse grass seed mix and any time I did buy in haylege that wasn't horse mix there was a huge difference in the haylege as well as how it affected the horses... A few did go a bit nuts and get upset tummys from the richness...
Oh ya and I don't cut my haylege until aug or sept.
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Post by mandal on Jan 18, 2013 0:46:18 GMT 1
I have a question about feeding a lot, and long term, fibre forages with little nutritional content straw and cardboard (lol) come to mind. Can it lead to deficiencies in for eg. protein?
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Bella
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Post by Bella on Jan 18, 2013 10:18:27 GMT 1
My mare had laminitis 3 years ago so I have to be so careful with her. I usually leave the yard about 6pm ish, later in the summer and her hay is weighed & soaked for 10 hours. I hang 3 x Elim-a-net's, pony size as they have the smallest mesh, each contain 5lbs of soaked hay. In her stable she has beams at quite a height, so I bought 2 x webbing slings with a high breaking strain. I hang 2 x nets from the webbing slings which hang from the beam, the height of these nets are in line with her face, the other net I hang on the side of her stable. I have gone to the yard at 11.00pm at night and she still has quite a bit of hay left, enough to last her till 6.00am the next morning. I think I've finally found a way to make her hay last
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