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Post by specialized on Dec 24, 2012 9:31:30 GMT 1
With the previous history as posted this is not a one-off, it has happened before enough for the previous owner to off-load. The problem now is whether there are signals you can pick up on or whether it really is out of the blue, in which case you have to consider whether you are risking your safety in continuing riding. Unfortunately you will now be expecting something to happen every time you ride, which will make it more likely to happen as your nerves will be transmitted through to the horse. Confidence is a big issue in these cases, I know from experience how hard it is to get it back after a major incident like this. We had a bolter and we gave him 2 years to try and rectify things, but the confidence in the horse was never the same and you always had a feeling that he was waiting to explode, in our case he could not cope with the wide-open hills and is now fine being ridden in more controlled spaces. As others have said, get the physical side re-checked, even if you have recently done so as things can change from day to day. Good luck.
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Post by cheekychops on Dec 24, 2012 9:39:12 GMT 1
Thanks so much everyone. Yes I'd agree that it wasn't a true bolt - rather than a blind panic reaction it was very much deliberate! It was more like a total toys out of the pram tantrum! Yes - I see that cobs can be VERY opinionated! I could see the cogs turning in his brain - as we were flying along he was trying to work out where the gateway back onto the road was. Once he realised he'd overshot it and there was nowhere to go he gave up. Once I've had his back checked I think the trick with him is work,work and more work and reinforcing transitions, changes of speed within the gait etc. We are lucky to have an indoor school so I need to come out of hibernation, ignore the mud and get on with it!
Thanks again for the support and advice - today is a new day! And Happy Christmas to you and your neddies! xx
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Post by wabuska on Dec 24, 2012 9:41:01 GMT 1
Just wanted to send a virtual hug... I do know.... really, deeply upsetting stuff and dangerous to boot. BP on at all times when out. I hope you get to the bottom of it or find a way to change his mind about the behaviour. Glad you're safe. Happy Christmas.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 9:58:07 GMT 1
Thanks so much everyone. Yes I'd agree that it wasn't a true bolt - rather than a blind panic reaction it was very much deliberate! It was more like a total toys out of the pram tantrum! Yes - I see that cobs can be VERY opinionated! I could see the cogs turning in his brain - as we were flying along he was trying to work out where the gateway back onto the road was. Once he realised he'd overshot it and there was nowhere to go he gave up. I'm afraid I don't think horses work like this. If you think about it even in a child, a tantrum has a reason. It could be because they are trying to get a bag of sweets or something and the mother had inadvertently taught that throwing a wobbly works, it could be attention seeking, it could be testing of boundaries. It's not, though, just for the sake of it. I've met a lot of cobs and they can be deceptive, in that they are often perceived as being just happy plods. They are often, though very sensitive and can also be very quick to tell you when they're not happy, and they'll tell you loudly. I obviously don't know why he took off with you as I wasn't there but I can virtually promise you there was a reason for him. If he's done it before, as it sounds he has, then I'd say that he has learned that taking off like this in his view works as a coping mechanism, and it might or might not be coping with the same thing. The other thing I'd say is that horses rarely give you no warning at all unless something sudden happens to cause their reaction. A raised head, wide eyes, tension, a change of breathing, etc, all will let you know that he's starting to say "uh oh!" That's the moment you need to learn to spot, and that's the moment you work to get him back to you, before he decided he has to do something about it. Yes, do you work on transitions etc. but also do work on keeping his concentration with you, on relaxation when you ask it, and on you picking up his signals. Groundwork first, then under saddle. And to echo specialized - keep safe!
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Post by mandal on Dec 24, 2012 10:26:23 GMT 1
I've met a lot of cobs and they can be deceptive, in that they are often perceived as being just happy plods. They are often, though very sensitive and can also be very quick to tell you when they're not happy, and they'll tell you loudly. And to echo specialized - keep safe! I second this, I think cobs are often very sensitive and the two I have are definitely much more 'sensitive' than my tb. I'm not a great believer in such strict breed traits, I believe it depends on the individual and human perception more. Again, keep safe and a Christmas hug. x
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Post by iceberg on Dec 24, 2012 11:08:01 GMT 1
Hi , I am sorry this has happened to you , I had pretty well exactly the same happen with Archie. We had had a lovely hack for around an hour and we were actually on the home stretch along a bridleway which led out onto a road. My friend on her little cob was behind us, and i was just saying how lovely it was to have a quiet walk out ( we'd only walked and had a couple of trots) when he suddenly threw his head up, crouched down and took off. I had no brakes, no steering and when he stopped around halfway down the path it was because he wanted too! He stood calmly as friend caught us up, no sign of stress, and I asked her if she saw anything that may have scared him and she said no, her cob is very clingy to Archie, and the fact that he had not even moved let alone reacted was strange we thought. So we carried on walking and about 1 minute later exactly the same again - this time it did scare me! The road was looming and I had no control at all - he pulled up at the road junction and this time he was snorting, wouldnt stand and being a bit of a twit. Also this time my friends pony took off and she came off, so that was horrible. She was ok, just shaken, we decided to lead them home as neither would stand to be mounted ( id got off to help her). I'll be honest, I havent hacked him out since, instead we've done loads of schooling, working on brakes etc, but if Im truly honest, I doubt I would be able to stop him if it happened again, so my friend hacks him out occasionally ( she knows all about it). This wasnt an isolated incident, 6 months previously he tanked on the road after he did a poo! This was in company and Ive no idea why. He tanked when the pony behind him scraped a shoe on the road, and then once when a herd of young cows galloped at us - that one is understandable. So, not being the bravest person and being a bit feeble, I think our hacking days may well be over. At first this was a big deal, but now Im resigned to it. Im not offering any advice, as clearly I havent cracked this problem, just wanted to say I totally understand where you are coming from, and if you can keep your confidence and work through it then remember to stay safe. xxx
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Post by cheekychops on Dec 24, 2012 11:54:09 GMT 1
Thanks all - it is reassuring to know I'm not alone! Iceberg so sorry you went through that, and it is quite understandable you don't want to risk it happening again! Running through the "what ifs.." in your mind is enough to make you think twice about getting back on. BP all the way from now on!
LizP I know you're right, there must have been something, some sign, I've been wracking my brain and I can't put my finger on it. I always thought I was pretty in tune with him, and he is a sensitive chap, no doubt. We hadn't been out for a couple of weeks, it was getting a little dark, and we were heading home - was it insecurity that sent him running for home?? He is not at all a horse that fizzes in open spaces - e.g.faced with a huge stubble field he waits to be asked and always comes back to me. I will work on our relationship and reaffirming his confidence in me.
BTW can someone give me instructions on the one rein stop?? never had the need before..!
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Post by jennyb on Dec 24, 2012 12:07:48 GMT 1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8S1eN2lN8I knew I had one on my channel somewhere! A little one rein stop at around 2.50 on this vid. Gazdag doesn't go very fast here but this was when we were working on confidence after he'd gone over backwards with me, so he wasn't allowed any wiggle room at all and I was being quite strict with him! For this to work, they really need to be educated quite well to respond to rein aids, so you see here my direct rein aid with the right rein causes his head to come around to the right, the quarters to swing around left, and the action of bending the neck whilst swinging the quarters around just takes all of the power and energy from the back end and you can regain control.
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Post by cheekychops on Dec 24, 2012 12:42:34 GMT 1
Thanks Jenny! Will have a look when I can get onto pc - phone no good!
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Post by jackiedo on Dec 24, 2012 13:30:46 GMT 1
Jenny I would like to say that you have a beautiful seat. excellent riding there
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Post by janwilky on Dec 24, 2012 13:43:59 GMT 1
I totally agree about cobs being sensitive - mine is both very sensitive and inclined to be opinionated, which can be an interesting combination. It's lovely when everything is going well - he will go up or down a pace on the lightest suggestion and can be a joy to hack out - but when he's not happy he can shout very loudly indeed. I agree about learning to recognise the little signs that all's not well, but even after three years I have to say it's not always easy with my boy to pick up the warning signals - I think cobs can sometimes do a very good job of keeping their concerns well hidden until they absolutely can't cope any more and then they explode with very little warning - or at least that's what mine tends to do, and it can be like the flipping of a switch. He has improved hugely though with consistent work and schooling, and our recent accident wasn't his fault although it did show up that there are still some issues to address in the way he reacts to the unexpected. Totally freaking out and throwing yourself around until your rider hits the deck is not an OK response to treading on a hoof boot Anyway, have a lovely Christmas cheekychops and do keep safe while you work through this issue. Just from my experience, be particularly careful at the point where you think it's all behind you and everything is OK again. That's not meant to knock your confidence, it's just that I got over-confident and jumped forward about three steps instead of just taking one step and consolidating it before moving on - I had been doing that to good effect, but then I got lulled into a false sense of security because he'd been so good recently. It was nearly a fatal mistake, but hopefully a tough lesson learned.
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Post by cheekychops on Dec 24, 2012 16:41:36 GMT 1
Thanks Jan - you too, I hope you are on the mend - both mind and body :-)
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Post by janwilky on Dec 24, 2012 17:03:59 GMT 1
Yes, thank you, I'm mending well
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Post by iceberg on Dec 24, 2012 19:45:48 GMT 1
Glad to hear you are mending jan, that sounds horrendous.xx
I think you hit the nail on the head re cobs keeping their concerns well hidden, until unbearble and exploding as such. Being so stoic usually and sensible to a fault on home ground, I really think Archie is way out of his comfort zone out off the yard and as such self preservation can totally take over - even to the point of galloping away from home - so not a 'homing pigeon response' imo. He is too precious to me to risk on the roads, being the death traps they are (round here at least) , so Im happy learning new stuff with him in the relative safety of the school.
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Post by cheekychops on Dec 28, 2012 20:23:08 GMT 1
Just to give a little update following the bolting incident earlier this week. My chiropractor has been brilliant and managed to fit us in today. She found that he was really very sore through his back, and very tight right through his neck, chest, shoulders and hips. She did a lot of work with him so I hope he will be a lot more comfortable. I'll never know if it triggered the tanking off, but I'm sure it can't have helped if he's feeling tight and uncomfortable. I'm going to get a second opinion on his saddle too as we both felt it's not the best shape for him, although he is very difficult to fit. We did some really nice in-hand work in the school and he is so responsive, so we'll keep that up.
Thank you to everyone here who has given advice and support - I have taken it all on board. I hope we'll be back on track soon and enjoying our hacking together again.
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