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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 19, 2012 10:05:45 GMT 1
I understood that under the recent law changes regarding Ragwort, it was illegal to supply hay containing Ragwort. Your YO should be taking steps to make sure her supplier removes this bale from your yard and she should be trying her hardest to source a new supplier. My old vet said it took only 1 lb of ragwort over a period of time to kill a horse. This may have been an exaggeration, but for your YO to even consider continuing to feed this hay is gross irresponsibility. Fingers crossed your horse's tests shows no damage done, and none of the other horses have been damaged.
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Post by badhay on Dec 19, 2012 12:04:38 GMT 1
Thankfully, my horse's liver function is fine but the tone of my vet's voice when he delivered the news showed he had been very worried too. I showed the vet the ragwort yesterday and he confirmed it is indeed ragwort but now it seems it got thrown away before YO saw it and this morning she pretty much accused me of finding docks not ragwort until I said my vet had confirmed it. She said she'd only found one stem in the last bale and spoken to her hay supplier and he said it's inevitable that you'll get some occsaionally. The most concerning thing she said was that they have to eat a lot of it to make a difference which IMO is utter nonsense. I don't want my horse eating ANY of it! My understanding is like June's that any amaount causes scarring and by the time they show illness it's usually too late and is fatal. YO said the supplier is bringing a better bale which my horse can be fed from but how can they know it's better when he says it can't be helped? Trouble is, after finding ragwort in the haynet after I'd already flagged it up and then hearing that my YO thinks a little bit isn't a problem I now don't trust her or the staff to feed my horse. I've got four bales of horsehage (my horse was quite excited about smelling sweet clean haylage for a change) but I don't know how I can go back to having them fill his nets even if the next bale does appear better and I definitely can't afford my livery (which is supposed to include haylage) plus horsehage indefinitely. I can hardly even believe I'm in this mess
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Post by jill on Dec 19, 2012 12:46:21 GMT 1
Inevitable that you will get some occasionally? Not in well managed crops - I check mine before during and after it has been mown, and I would give a tenner to anyone who can find one stem of ragwort in my 82 bales. That said, the farming community in general don't seem to realise how dangerous it can be - my neighbour who has been a farm worker for most of his working life, with livestock, refers to it as "that yellow flower you don't like" to me. Probably most farm livestock are slaughtered before they show any symptoms. In you situation I think I would try and negotiate a livery where you supply your own, or failing that, find another yard. If the YO is that dismissive of a risk which has been pretty well publicised in recent years, what else is she turnig a blind eye to? Only you can know whether moving is worth it, depending on the facilities etc and what other yards are near enough to consider, but I would be very worried. Are the othe horse owners on the yard aware of the danger?
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 19, 2012 12:49:48 GMT 1
As you have tried to discuss the issue with YO and not being understood, can your vet speak to her re the dangers? Her comment regarding 'only 1 stalk' was not good. I have had to change supplier over this issue, and throw hay away which I was not reimbursed for (not good at confrontation and the supplier was in denial - he said 'I got out of the tractor every time I saw a yellow flower and pulled it out so it must be ragwort free', so if she is only buying a bale at a time surely this is a no brainer? Haylage is more easily sourced than good clean hay where I live, which is why I reluctantly changed. Failing that, can you move yards? I respect you wishing to remain anonymous but people on here may be able to suggest local options if you give us a geographical clue???
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Post by sarahbing on Dec 19, 2012 12:50:32 GMT 1
Cross posted with Jill ;D
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Post by cookie on Dec 19, 2012 13:12:20 GMT 1
What a nightmare.
I wouldn't be happy to carry on feeding that same supply when there is no acknowledgment of the serious ness of the issue.
Very glad the liver function tests were ok.
I hope you can negotiate a different livery rate for the time being, moving this time of year is an added hassle but sounds like you are being forced into a corner by yo.
Maybe you're vet having a word might help?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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Post by jill on Dec 19, 2012 13:18:55 GMT 1
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Post by cbc on Dec 19, 2012 13:53:25 GMT 1
I cant believe your livery yard owner is being so dismissive, agree with SS3, has she not considered the consequences for her? More importantly you are right to be worried by the forage coming from that supplier. Hope you can get an agreement sorted out or find a new yard. Feeding bad haylege is also a recipe for big problems too.
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Post by annas on Dec 19, 2012 14:38:20 GMT 1
Phew that is very good news about the blood test. I agree it is very worrying what the YO said about it and i too would not trust them to feed my horse. She does seem to have admitted that she has found a stem of ragwort before which IMO is one too many! I personally would not be happy with YO or the supplier. Its a tricky situation but i guess you just need to discuss rationally with the YO and see if you can negotiate a livery rate that doesn't include haylage and then supply your own. OK this will probably cost more but better than the risk of eating ragwort. Finding a new yard can be tricky and maybe not necessary if you can come to some agreement. I think the other liveries need to know about it as well though.
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Post by badhay on Dec 19, 2012 15:20:18 GMT 1
Thank you all for your support. When I have conversations like this morning's I sometimes start to wonder if it is me that is way off the mark but clearly not.
My horse is on my supply of horsehage now. I am going to ask YO to do me a livery price for me to supply my own as I never want him fed from a bale that has had ragwort in it. If she won't then that will mean I have to leave.
I feel very awkward about the other liveries, if I tell them the YO will feel I am stabbing her in the back. I am one of the newest on the yard. One livery is a friend of mine who I knew before either of us moved there and I have called her and asked her to call me back and I will tell her the facts so she can decide for herself what to do.
The others I expect will see my supply of horsehage and start to ask questions, if they ask me I will tell them.
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Post by specialized on Dec 19, 2012 16:29:21 GMT 1
It is not inevitable that ragwort will be in hay, unless the land is badly managed, in which case I would not touch it at all. I drive around each field before I cut it and will avoid getting contractors to cut just in case I have missed the occasional stalk we see, as I will stop the tractor and get off whereas a contractor is unlikely to be bothered. You owe it to the other liveries to point out the ragwort, would you be able to live with yourself if one gets liver failure and you knew the ragwort was being fed and didn't tell them? The YO is being totally unfair and it needs to be pointed out that she is responsible for providing safe forage if she is charging for it and any loss of animal could be her responsibility - also worth checking if she has correct liability insurance in place.
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Post by cookie on Dec 19, 2012 16:29:48 GMT 1
That sounds reasonable. If you are staying there you certainly don't want further bad feeling with the yo.
Like you, I would tell friends or folks I know well, but when you are new I think its reasonable not to seek trouble. Word will get round regardless.
Things like this are hard enough at other times of the year but in the middle of winter with hols round the corner its a real stress.
my boy had liver issues a few years ago, fortunately we don't think it was ragwort related but it was a huge worry (I can't account for his lifetimes grazing, who can?). Yes liver can regenerate to an extent but ragwort damage is much harder on the liver than other issues.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 17:36:56 GMT 1
if part of your livery agreement/cost is the YO provides the haylage/hay etc then surely she has a duty of care towards all the animals on her yard. if she is knowingly supplying feed that has ragwort in it surely she's being negligent?
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
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Post by Amanda Seater on Dec 19, 2012 17:41:00 GMT 1
I systematically walk our entire hay crop before during growth to ensure no ragwort. No it is not ineveitable to have some as other have said just bad practice. I have the equivlanent of about 2000 bales and I KNOW there is no ragwort in any of it.
Jees some people!
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Post by sharonh on Dec 19, 2012 17:42:24 GMT 1
One of my Shetlands died from ragwort poisoning and it must have been in some hay as she was never turned out in a field with it. Whilst I can accept that the odd rosette might get included if it's not flowering, I would find the YO's attitude the most worrying thing. ETA Could you not fill your own nets from her supply, at least you could then be sure there wasn't any in your nets?
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