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Post by mandal on Dec 12, 2012 12:18:14 GMT 1
Oh, fingers crossed for the phone call Michelle.
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rosi
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Post by rosi on Dec 12, 2012 14:32:59 GMT 1
I have had some success with herbs. It is worth saying that my boy is also under the vet and is on danilon once a day for 5 days now, as well as anti-biotics. I make my feed up using a tincture of cleavers and calendula. In all honesty, I think that walkering twice daily, turnout throughout the day and bandaging overnight, as well as the drugs have helped, but the improvement has been more marked since I started him on the herbs as well. My old boy has always had swollen legs in the morning and his were looking amazing this morning! I bought the herbs from a seller on Ebay: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NaturaPhatic-Superior-Cleavers-Marigold-filled-legs-/310215001411?pt=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item483a414543I worked on the basis that it couldn't do any harm to try... So far, so good!
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Post by Katieleeown on Dec 12, 2012 14:52:43 GMT 1
Ditto what rosi says - amber is having a small handful of cleavers in her feeds this week and her legs are much much better she is stabled far more than I would like at the moment.
Might be worth looking into?
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Post by jen1 on Dec 12, 2012 19:27:57 GMT 1
isnt cleaver selenium, and reading this thread im wondering is cellulitis and lymphatics can be confused ,i had a mare who's presented the same kind of symptoms, i treated it with flamazine took all cereal out of her diet,,we had it for 2 years running then fizzled out and we never had it again, speaking to an old owner of my mare (tom and fleurs mum) she told me billie had had it for most of her adult life,
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 13:36:06 GMT 1
and reading this thread im wondering is cellulitis and lymphatics can be confused Yes, I think they often are mixed up. Talin had cellulitis (which was treated aggressively with antibiotics and bute) and blood test confirmed the infection is now gone. His continued lymph swelling is probably due to cell damage caused by the sudden swelling on the first day he got cellulitis. A conversation with my sports therapist yielded several points: 1) exercise and turnout are the best possible treatment 2) she's coming out to show me how to do lymph draining massage 3) I shouldn't give up hope of him healing just yet 4) bandaging is probably more reliable than stable wraps/ boots 5) tubigrip loses compressive force after 24 hours so will be less effective than bandaging 6) magnets do work, she has seen clinical results, but no one really knows how. Caution is advised while his legs are still scabby 7) if his legs can heal, they need good circulation and magnets can help with that. Any swelling means lymph fluid is pooling and will possibly be constricting the blood vessels and reducing circulation and therefore slowing down healing, so keeping the swelling down is a priority. I didn't manage to get hold of the other lady recommended to me.
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Post by poppyandbea on Dec 13, 2012 14:15:21 GMT 1
hope hes better soon
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Post by donnalex on Dec 13, 2012 17:50:11 GMT 1
Times like this are when a horse walker really comes into its own. Stabled and put on the walker for ten to fifteen minutes five or six times a day would make a real difference. Anyone at the yard can pop them on for you if they are used to it. Turning them out in the winter is a real double edged sword.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 21:34:59 GMT 1
I'm even more pi**ed off now. Seriously.
The horses aren't having their legs washed because everything has been frozen. Fair eonugh, we've had the discussion on here about whether it can just make things worse. So I've just gently towelled the worst of the mud off (the pig oil actually makes it very easy to towel it off gently) and bandaged over it.
Last night he had more scabs up the back of his tendon, higher than where I had put the pig oil and sulpher (and it's higher than the mud is going), so I put the PO&S right up to his knees and now the back of that leg is red raw.
Now I can't bandage that leg to stop the swelling without making his mud fever sore and I can't leave him with nothing and allow his legs to swell or I risk cellulitis again. I could actually cry.
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Post by gwenoakes on Dec 14, 2012 9:38:46 GMT 1
Oh, Michelle I really, really feel for you. I cannot suggest anything other than if you use the Bioflow magnets they do not have to be where the problem is......so if you can get a magnetic rug, that would work to improve the circulation all over his body including his legs. If you became a distributor then you used to get a third off any products you bought for yourself, but this was years ago and not sure if its the same now, but maybe worth looking into.
Sorry not much help, but I really hope you can sort this. XXXX
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 14, 2012 10:56:13 GMT 1
It does sound likes hes reacting to the PO+S in a way - if the leg where you put it higher last night is now red raw?
Can I suggest you ring the folks at Progressive Earth - you want to speak to Mel as herbs are her thing and explain and ask if she could recommend a blend for Talin? She suggested me feeding eyebright to Armana for chronic gunky eyes and its clearing up after a week.
Also Any chance of leaving him out? Only good if someone has a dry field though I guess. And what about rescue remedy cream for the sores?
Just trying to brainstorm some ideas!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 13:45:09 GMT 1
Thanks gwen I didn't realise that, I'll look into the rugs. Bertie - I didn't know they did a RR cream either ;D Unfortunately he's already on the least muddy field. I think the infection has got a hold now though, he hasn't had mud up the back of that leg where it's now spread to. I got there this morning to find all this legs were really itchy, I ended up sat on the stable floor rubbing them for him while he rocked back and forth. One of his front bandages was all rucked up where he must have been pulling at it getting annoyed He'e never shown signs of beign itchy under the bandages before so I called the vet. He said I need to get more aggressive with treatment before it spirals any more. He's recommended continuing t/o in the day to help the swelling then when I bring in, hibiscrub the whole lower limb and leave it for 5 mins before rinsing, then hair dryer his legs and apply iodine all over with dressings on the sore bits then bandage. I'll call PE too.
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Post by kafee on Dec 14, 2012 14:20:30 GMT 1
hibiscrub the whole lower limb and leave it for 5 mins before rinsing, My vet recommended doing this for 5 days for Inca, and then leaving it for a few days, and repeating if it wasn't clear. It was a right pain as Inca didn't like having his legs washed at all. It did clear it up, and I then used PO&S, which prevented it coming back.
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 14, 2012 20:34:02 GMT 1
I may be missing it but has he had injectable anti biotics and anti inflammatories? Might give his system chance to get going again?
I know you've only just found the place but if there is a chance being stabled at night is going to long term knacker his leg lymphatic system Id be searching for somewhere with a wood chip pen or a field i could make a woodchip pen etc etc = /
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Post by donnalex on Dec 14, 2012 22:31:01 GMT 1
If he has had antibiotics then definitely dont rule out a fungal complication. If anyone remembers Alexs legs two winters ago that flared up from nothing after antibiotics for an ulcer on his eye then they will remember he was turning round and ripping them open, shredding his legs with his shoes and anything else he could do. Giving them antibiotics gets rid of the fungus fighting organisms on the skin and everywhere as well as other things. I would definitely wash with Imaverol to rule it out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 23:58:38 GMT 1
Yes he had IV antibiotics and bute (followed by a course of oral) for the cellulitis. The MF went away while he was on that and I was hibiscrubbing his legs daily but it's come back again since.
Stabling him at night isn't going to knacker his lymphatic system. He has damage to his legs caused by the cellulitis. The cellulitis is now gone but the damage hasn't - that might or might not heal. If it doesn't heal my vet was very clear that there is no negative health impact as long as you bandage to prevent the legs filling up. Which I was very glad to hear as my first thought had been "oh yey, I've just put him on stabled livery and now he needs to go out again!".
I had forgotten that about Alex. In our case, he had MF before going on the anti'b's and it went away when he was on antibiotics which must mean it is bacterial, or the anti'b's and hibiscrub wouldn't have healed it the first time.
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