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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Mar 23, 2012 11:57:05 GMT 1
This thread has actually got me doing some serious thinking actually so thank you Lisa.
I do work Nancy regularly, yes its ground work and for those that know there is a reason its ground work. However, my lunge sessions consist of lots of transitions, change of rein etc before I get to the inhand schooling, but, I rarely get her to a point of puff! the only time I work her hard is if she has been difficult9 And its her thats actually worked herself hard by being difficult). If she has been light & responsive I maybe do about 10/15mins on the lunge and about 20mins in hand schooling. This is because I feel I am rewarding her by NOT working her hard, BUT, the ocassions when she has been left puffing, when her veins are out she looks alive and interested and seems to want more! She moves so much more better. I am also thinking that her lethargy may be down to the fact that she isn't fit and has put on a few extra pounds since the spring grass reared its ugly head.
I like to think I am now quite savvy at reading my horse, I know when its attitude and when its genuine fear and discomfort. So its up to me to gauge how much I put her through. She is also lazy (again possibly due to the fact she has never been fit). It brings me back to the memory of Phar Lap, the lazy race horse. He was 'worked' out of that lazyness and became a champion of champions (ok, not how we would do it but still- something for us to think about all the same?). So, is a horse lazy because it simply is just left to do things heart heartedly. I know when I go to the gym I like to be pushed, thats why I do classess, because left to my own devices I will just do 'enough'. But wow how good do I feel when I have pushed myself that little bit extra.
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Post by KimT on Mar 23, 2012 12:16:53 GMT 1
I think in some respects you need to look at horses like you may people.
If a person is over weight they suffer from many different health issues and often feel tired/lazy etc. Many just don't want to go out and do things cause it literally is too much effort to carry that weight around.
There are also older people or injured people (or some by choice) that would benefit from a more cultivavtive form of exercise e.g. Tai Chi. This exercise will help keep them supple and fight aches and pains.
Some people like to be moderately fit so can swim, sometimes jog, walk dogs, ride...etc.
Some like to be athletes and be fit/have a lot of preasure.
Nancy may want a bit more. All exercise should be built up at a reasonable pace to avoid injury/illness and maybe she will settle if she feels more tired after a workout. After all she is a healthy, young horse who may just be feeling good. Most overweight people/horses always feel so much better after shedding a few pounds. They suddenly get a new lease of life cause they just feel good.
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Post by jennyb on Mar 23, 2012 12:17:50 GMT 1
I think you're right 2 bays. I love that feeling when you've pushed yourself hard with the exercise and feel alive, and I think the horses love it too. Gazdag can come home from a long fast hack feeling like he could do the same again immediately, he's so happy and full of beans. This week I took him on a short but fast hack, we cantered the whole way along the grass route and he was perfect, light in the hand, balanced, rhythmical. He was breathing a little harder, so working hard, but not once did he ask to stop, he's like a little Duracell bunny, he just keeps going and going!
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Post by specialized on Mar 23, 2012 12:34:14 GMT 1
Riding doesn't seem to be on some people's agenda. That doesn't matter until it produces very bored horses who start looking for mischief which then soon starts to cause problems which is back to the OP's comments. Why would horses that are kept out 24/7 start getting bored and looking for mischief because they are not ridden? Horses are not designed to be ridden and have no expectations of being ridden, riding is purely for our convenience. We have 12 horses in mixed herds, some of which are brought in to be ridden on occasion, but I don't see any of them getting bored because they are not ridden - perhaps another case of humanising horses' feelings.
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Post by jill on Mar 23, 2012 12:59:16 GMT 1
Riding doesn't seem to be on some people's agenda. That doesn't matter until it produces very bored horses who start looking for mischief which then soon starts to cause problems which is back to the OP's comments. Why would horses that are kept out 24/7 start getting bored and looking for mischief because they are not ridden? Horses are not designed to be ridden and have no expectations of being ridden, riding is purely for our convenience. We have 12 horses in mixed herds, some of which are brought in to be ridden on occasion, but I don't see any of them getting bored because they are not ridden - perhaps another case of humanising horses' feelings. Unless perhaps they are overfed high performance feeds and have more energy than they know what to do with? Which leads to stress, either in themselves or other herd members, and stress can give rise to all manner of health problems such as laminitis and gastric ulcers. Squared the circle!! Sorry, back on the same hobby horse
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hammie
Advanced Poster
Posts: 448
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Post by hammie on Mar 23, 2012 13:06:14 GMT 1
Why would horses that are kept out 24/7 start getting bored and looking for mischief because they are not ridden? Horses are not designed to be ridden and have no expectations of being ridden, riding is purely for our convenience. We have 12 horses in mixed herds, some of which are brought in to be ridden on occasion, but I don't see any of them getting bored because they are not ridden - perhaps another case of humanising horses' feelings. My horse is out 24/7, but in a field - a small one at the moment. He can't roam very far, doesn't have to look for his food or water, it all arrives on tap. There are no predators (though I'm not sure he believes that ). These things make his life quite cushy and presumably lazier than he would be in the wild.
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Post by wabuska on Mar 23, 2012 13:23:34 GMT 1
Specialized, the difficultly is not the expectation of being ridden, it's owners not riding or being able to ride but still stuffing them full of grub (largely designed for performance horses not cobs) or allowing them too much grass, and expecting them to stay healthy.
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Post by mandal on Mar 23, 2012 13:44:55 GMT 1
I understand what specialized is pointing out. Horses have no desire or innate knowledge of being ridden until they are backed. Most imo wouldn't miss it one bit but it is an effective way to get lots of exercize in so we don't have to jog. We restrict horses so much even in large fields. They don't even move that much in a large field if it's full of lovely grass... Mentally, I believe out in a large area in a settled herd is very good for horses, but that isn't an option for many of us so we have to try and do the best with what we've got and balance any medical needs with mental welfare. If we are going to say that a horse HAS to have X amount of exercize to be healthy then most of us would have to shed at least one supposed unhealthy horse. Health and fitness are closely related but you don't have to be an Olympian to be healthy.
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Post by taklishim on Mar 23, 2012 14:04:58 GMT 1
Riding doesn't seem to be on some people's agenda. That doesn't matter until it produces very bored horses who start looking for mischief which then soon starts to cause problems which is back to the OP's comments. Why would horses that are kept out 24/7 start getting bored and looking for mischief because they are not ridden? Horses are not designed to be ridden and have no expectations of being ridden, riding is purely for our convenience. We have 12 horses in mixed herds, some of which are brought in to be ridden on occasion, but I don't see any of them getting bored because they are not ridden - perhaps another case of humanising horses' feelings. I entirely agree with your comments but I didn't explain myself very well. I don't mean horses living out and not ridden. Indeed we have several who for one reason or another are not able to be ridden and who live in at night and out in the daytime. They are not problematical and certainly don't need to be ridden. I am not humanising horse's feelings. What I was talking about was horses who are stabled part of the time, possibly fed unsuitable feeds and who are then given mininal work, perhaps in hand which does not get rid of their energy and who then start "playing up". I use that word as there seem to be lots of problems on various forums when sometimes I just think "get on and give it a belt around the countryside for a couple of hours and it will be satisfied and happy"
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Post by KimT on Mar 23, 2012 14:25:59 GMT 1
haha talikshim. I have always tried to take the tb's out for a good gallop every now and then. Purely to knock some fidgets out and because they love it. It is what they were bred/trained to do.
On someone elses point that horses arent designed to be ridden/worked/around us, I agree to a point. They weren't designed by nature but have been domesticated. I think largely speaking it is similar to dogs. We have changed their way of living to mean that we are their herd (pack), we control food (to a certain extent), we become their company and they become reliant on us. We need to take responsibility for that.
I make the above statement when considering the 'normal' set up of commercial livery yards where horses don't have lots of acres to forage.
I do wholeheartedly agree that a horse should be fed approriately and some problems do come from that.
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Post by lawyerbunny on Mar 23, 2012 14:45:21 GMT 1
Mags - your post really got me thinking. I agree with you completely re. being honest about why people don't ride, as well as what effect that has. I don't think it's necessary to get into a technical debate about the purpose and design of the modern domesticated horse to see that there are times when we (myself definitely included!) don't give the fitness of our horses - whether gained through riding or other forms of exercise* - the priority it deserves.
I'm going to use the dog analogy again. If I get home from work and am tired, I would never think of neglecting to walk the dog: her fitness is important to her health and therefore to me. I would, however, give the horse a day off in the same circumstances. I don't question the fact that the dog needs to be kept stimulated and fit, and take her breeding into account (a working-bred lurcher) in all of that. I also accept that if she didn't get enough stimulation and exercise, she'd tell me that: poor physical as well as mental health.
I'm not suggesting a horse and a dog are the same but I do think we can perceive their need for exercise and fitness as being different. I know I do. I know I shouldn't! There's nothing wrong with a healthy horse living quietly in its field without being ridden. There'd be nothing *wrong* with me driving to work and sitting at my desk all day and doing nothing else**. But it has to be acknowledged that exercise leads to fitness, which leads to better health, and that without it, a good weight and general health is generally harder to achieve.
* and I'm afraid I'm another one who doesn't think turnout and a spin with the rest of the herd round the field produces any real kind of fitness.
** fat chance of that!
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Post by mags on Mar 23, 2012 15:23:14 GMT 1
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Post by specialized on Mar 23, 2012 15:24:15 GMT 1
On someone elses point that horses arent designed to be ridden/worked/around us, I agree to a point. They weren't designed by nature but have been domesticated. Sorry to be pedantic, but horses were designed by nature, and though we have domesticated them and controlled aspects of their breed types they are still fundamentally much the same as the early wild horses - they were never designed to be ridden. I agree also that they were not designed to be what we take them to be, and perhaps more consideration should be paid to this when we are trying to get them to do alien things like being ridden, shut in a stable, restricted by fences etc.
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Post by mandal on Mar 23, 2012 15:37:56 GMT 1
I believe specialized this aspect is becoming (thankfully) more considered and also the way horses are tacked and ridden to be less problematic. Like most things that involve humans opening their eyes and changing it comes slow but at least, I believe, things are moving in the right direction. Lawerbunny re walking the dogs, I do think we view horses a bit differently to dogs. I think it's partly because they don't live with us in our home, so the consideration and responsibility can get a bit removed. Plus, it takes a lot more effort and resolve to keep a horse fit. ;D ps. I'm involved in a box rest thread elsewhere so Maisy's walk is late!
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Post by lawyerbunny on Mar 23, 2012 16:10:24 GMT 1
I'm sure Maisy will forgive! Quite right re effort and resolve too! I also think we can view time with and exercising our horses as being 'down time' or a bit of R & R for us, which makes us perhaps think of it as optional or even a luxury, and not being as essential for the horse as it is.
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