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Post by jennyb on Mar 22, 2012 11:13:00 GMT 1
Gazdag says what is gallop? ;D
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 11:22:33 GMT 1
I do think there are many questions about horse ownership in general and even with working horses. The thing is many of us have made the error of collecting too many and others don't have the time but we already have them. Again, it's down to education out there in the public domain about the work and time, emotional and financial commitment needed so people are put off buying in the first place. Human's general attitude to all animals stinks imo and until that changes imo humans will continue to do stuff for their own gratification regardless of the effect on the animal involved. I expect posters to jump in and recommend work if others forget from now on.
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Post by KimT on Mar 22, 2012 11:24:10 GMT 1
I do agree with you Lisa. I think (correct me if I'm worng) the point that you are trying to make is that there needs to be a balance and 'work' is one part that is definitely out of balance. There were days with my first horse when I would hack her out and she would rear/bolt/spin... but if you just waited for her to get on with it, she would get better. A lot of the time it was because she hadn't been ridden for awhile (for whatever reason) and she just had to knock the fidgets out. She did have massive trust issues but we got over them. Physically she was fine. When Billy hurt his back and it healed to the point where he could go out in the field he was a nightmare. Normally he is an easy going horse but he wouldn't be caught (never usually a problem), wouldn't pick his feet up, occasionally reared in hand, etc. As soon as the physio was out and we began to work him he was back to being an angel. I really think he was bored. He was out 24/7 and hardly on any food at that point. As with the above examples, if there was a physical problem then I got treatment and listened to my horse but sometimes they do get bored and to come in and do work is exciting. Jack looked his best in the summer with no feed and was being hacked out for between 1-3 hours 6 days a week. We would occasionally do schooling (much to his displeasure) and jumping (which he loved). He absolutely adored troting down roads. He would do a spanking trot with his head up, ears pricked really happy for ages. I got worn out before he did. Other than actual injuries none of them suffered any illness. Jack's saddle got a bit tight at one point cause he got so chunky and we got him a new one. I am a little worried about Lady. I would say she is in perfect condition right now so am worried about when the spring grass comes through more. She isn't 2 yet so can't work her to get the weight off.
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Mar 22, 2012 11:45:27 GMT 1
There is also a balance that horses are not there just for us to ride. I don't want to work my horses every day, they would sour. We all need time off Its also having the intelligence to recognise when the horse is in pain/distressed, genuinely worried or when the horses behaviour is purely learned and exuberance. there is a distinct difference and working through the behaviour is paramount that teaching the horse its just not acceptable. I have 3, yes too many I know. Bronte is retired, Nancy is my main horse and Mac is rising 6 so I do bits with him. I try to aim (which will hopefully be acheivable now light nights are on the way) to work Nancy & Mac every other day, with a day off in the week and one at the weekend (hey I need a break too ), but its hard working full time. That said, I like to think I manage my horses very well. They are out at 6.30am and don't come in till at least 6pm, if one is being worked they are out longer, so minimal time spent in the stable. They are on pretty much poor grazing (I requested that my field not to be fertilized. So, if they are not worked I don't feel I am doing wrong by them. There are other ways to menatlly stimulate a horse, CT, gorund work etc. Something I try & do with Bronte, she is very sound in mind . I don't see any problem with having horses as pets as long as you manage their expectations responsibly, and actually spend time with them. There are too many horse owners these days who simply put them out in the field, do the chores, then at the end of the day just stick them back in the stable without even taking their rugs off or picking their feet out. I really don't see the point in having them, only to ride them once a week. If I am not working them I spend time with them, brushing, fussing and just 'being'. In my opinion there is not enough 'just being' with your horses.
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Post by specialized on Mar 22, 2012 11:54:02 GMT 1
So is 40 miles a month supposed to be a lot of work? That is less than 1.5 miles a day, you could do that in 10 mins. I would look at 40 miles a WEEK as being moderate work, but that is only 3 decent 2 hour hacks.
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 12:05:52 GMT 1
I think it is at least 40 miles a week. That's 5-6 miles a day workin every day, achievable fairly easily with one or two horses, more if you can pony.
Exercize increases metabolism but it must be energetic. I don't mean galloping everywhere, even an energetic walk is beneficial.
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Post by bramblesmum on Mar 22, 2012 12:08:53 GMT 1
I agree with 2bays. I know the difference between pain and naughty/eneergetic. My TB went on the lunge yesterday following poor health and no work she was leaping and bucking and thoroughly enjoyed herself, she is definatly one that enjoys stimulation, but again I dont believe it has to be ridden as longreining and lunging especially if you can go out longreining can be just as good for them.
I have two foals who obviously cant be worked they live out and have handling daily but I wouldnt say they require "work" to be happy ponies, they live a life they are very happy with and are very happy little souls. I have an in foal mare whos biggest enjoyment in life is having a groom she can take or leave "work" and to be honest if her choice I believe she would leave it 99% of the time, she is an exceptionally well behaved and happy horse though with no health issues. I have another mare who has been off due to injury and is quite happy left in a field with her buddies or coming in and doing some work, my stallion is just learning work and because he doesnt get group turnout I think it is him who benefits most from the work.
If you keep a horse well fed (hay/haylage/grass) with good turnout in a herd I think they are happy as larry and none of mine have exhibited any issues metabolic or behavioural, my TB I bought with some issues so I cannot count her.
If you keep them stabled all the time pumped with feed or on individual turnout then I think work be it on the ground or under saddle is likely to improve their quality of life.
I also agree feed merchants are terrible as for my natives going by feed bags I would be feeding them far more than they need and currently they are happy and healthy living out with ad lib haylage
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Post by KimT on Mar 22, 2012 12:09:09 GMT 1
I suppose I shoulsd clarify that I don't just mean ridden work. For Billy's rehab we did 6 months of leading, longlining, massages, streches, and eventually a little bit of lunging.
The massages and stretches gave us a lot of 1-1 time.
With Lady being so young we just groom, mess around, go our for little walks down the road. She won't have proper work for awhile yet.
I do agree with people spending more time mucking out a stable than with their horse. All of mine got cuddles and grooming when not ridden. Jack positively demanded it! So does Lady!
I always made sure my horses got a day off. It used to be a Monday cause we would do a long pub ride on the Sunday and it gave us both a day off. I found all of them loved being ridden and didnt sour. Maybe its cause we hacked a lot. All of them loved a good gallop (2 were exracers and one was an ex hunt horse) and Jack loved trotting races with other horses (usually cause he won). I think if I had schooled Jack everyday he would sour cause he hated schooling and only did it if I was persistent. So we hacked and jumped which he loved. However, Billy would school happily enough, loved hacking and hated jumping.
I think you just need to know what they like.
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Post by shinycob on Mar 22, 2012 12:10:09 GMT 1
I haven't had time to thoroughly read all of this thread, but I completely agree that exercise is one of the basics that is overlooked in horse care. People who eat lots of rich sugary foods and don't get much exercise get fat, often resulting in diabetes and heart conditions later in life, and the same is exactly true for horses. Horses have not been designed to lead a sedentary lifestyle.
This was completely and utterly proven to me when I took a gap year between 6th form and university. I've had a pony who I've struggled with for years. He was gifted to me as nobody else wanted him, and over the next couple of years (while I was still at school) we battled with each other continuously. He was grossly obese despite being on a restricted diet, was physically and mentally unhappy, and nearly impossible to ride and handle even with extensive groundwork. During my gap year I rode him every single morning without fail. After a few months he was nearly a normal pony shape, and was much happier with life. By the end of the year he looked and felt fit and athletic with minimal dieting, and enjoyed his work. He looks and feels like a completely different pony, nobody who knew him back then would even recognise him now, and it was all due to consistent hard exercise.
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 12:12:30 GMT 1
I think you just need to know what they like. I think this is important even regarding the amount of exercize needed. Horses are individuals and just doing a rote regime may not suit all especially is there are already problems.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 12:34:04 GMT 1
I agree with the original sentiment that perhaps work ought to be considered higher up the priority list in some cases.
I don't agree with setting a mileage limit on when a horse is considered barefoot (or fit or any other parameter) I find that quite ridiculous. I consider a horse successfully barefoot when it is able to comfortably perform the job required of it. Talin doesn't do anything like 40 miles a week but he'll happily canter fast over rocky ground that many shod horses would struggle with.
I cringe when I see posts harking back to the good old days when the horses were worked hard, no one had saddle problems and horses got on fine, because IME the RIDERS got on fine and the horses often suffered in silence. It's YEARS since I've seen white marks on a horse's back but they used to be on nearly every horse I saw when I was a kid, I don't consider that a backward step.
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Amanda Seater
Grand Prix Poster
Listen to your horse you may be surprised what he may tell you about yourself
Posts: 3,866
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Post by Amanda Seater on Mar 22, 2012 12:51:16 GMT 1
I agree too with the original sentiment of work should be considered a higher priority in many cases.
But I agree with Michellep about harking back to the "good old days" with Rose tinted specs.
In my younger days I worked at large trail riding and hunting yards. some would look for issues and give the horse a rest - maybe 2- 3weeks tops others would get the whip or worse out. BUT if a problem was not resolved quickly the horse "went" this could mean to another owner( rare) or shot or market. The horse had to work - no free riders and the technology and knowledge was much less and margins were still low These days with insurance we are able to look and do more to resolve certain issues
I have had to cut holes in padding to put under a saddle to releave saddle sores whilst the horse was kept in work. untill such time it could have a few days off to sort the sore.
I think sometimes back in the day - ignorance was bliss.
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pip
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by pip on Mar 22, 2012 13:03:10 GMT 1
I think a wild pony will cover 30 miles a day, roaming for feed. So if you are confining a horse and feeding it extra feed then that is what it is capable of.
Too many people feed for "light work" when from the horse's point of view it is doing No work. An idle hack of an hour is no work to a horse.
It is possible to look back with Rose Tinted glasses in the good old days - most horses were considered past their prime at 12, it would be hard to sell anything that age, and 15-20 was considered a lifetime for a horse. But then if they had been worked hard then it is possible that their legs were showing the strain anyway at that age.
We used to ride all day at the weekends and hack to shows, Pony Club, hunting - but now the traffic is so bad it is hard to do that.
I have sometimes replied to people with problems that two good long hacks at the weekend and plenty of schooling in the week could solve some problems.
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 13:10:21 GMT 1
I don't agree with setting a mileage limit on when a horse is considered barefoot (or fit or any other parameter) I find that quite ridiculous. I consider a horse successfully barefoot when it is able to comfortably perform the job required of it. Talin doesn't do anything like 40 miles a week but he'll happily canter fast over rocky ground that many shod horses would struggle with. I generally agree with you here Michelle that a horse needs to be fit for it's work comfortably and that is the best standard. I am also quite anti bench marks but I do think guides can be helpful in making it clear how much effort may need to be put in. The trouble is many people take things literally and see it as THE sign which it certainly isn't. I am reminded of the horse I saw trotting hard on a local road pulling a cart and limping! That horse was working hard...
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Post by sandy on Mar 22, 2012 13:46:22 GMT 1
I have read this thread with interest.
Just to throw another idea into the pot - Horses were not put on this planet for humans to ride. Maybe many of their behavioural/physical and mental problems are caused due to the pressures of having to carry so many stone of human around on their backs with all that entails. Ill fitting tack; too heavy riders; too much pressure to perform; not able to use their flight instinct when fearful; It is a privilege that they even allow us on their backs. Why do they have to work hard for us? Yet another human assumption!
My horse is out on 20 acres in a mixed, but stable herd. He is stabled at night from Dec to March. He is unrugged, barefoot and appears happy and content. He is a pleasure to be with. I ride almost everyday but only for maybe half hour to an hour. I am happy to amble round the fields - I will never do much more with him. I'm older and this is what I want to do. My horse will have a safe life with me. He came to me at 3 and since then has never known violence or aggression. Because I'm only ever going to potter round on my horse should I sell him on to face an uncertain future? Ari has the opportunity to gallop around his fields with his mates anytime he likes - and he quite often does.
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