jekyll and hyde mare - any ideas??

[holi]

I really can't get to the bottom of my girl. I bought her earlier this year and for the first few months she was brilliant. We then had a nightmare time with her and put it down to a combination of new grass (she is a fantastic doer) and we were embarking on a new system of training and were going too fast.

Anyway things have sort of settled but I still feel I am at a loss with her behaviour at times. Last few times of riding - plod plod - almost dead to the leg. Today she was on a mission and one of her own making and decision! She wanted to go at her speed, spooked, head tossing and the last straw was when she speeded up to be next to another mare and lashed out at her with back legs!! people have suggested her being in season, me being anxious (today I wasn't) - I am at a loss. The only strange thing was that today she was biting the fence as I did her girth up which she did last time things went pear shaped. She gets very greedy for food - almost dragging me over to grass today which she got told off for, fights the contact - basically has a real strop. TOday again though I could hear her belly rumbling all the time which was what happened last time she lost the plot.

Problem is she was bought as a confidence giver and her behaviour does shake me at times although I am getting better with her. Her attention span is appalling - its like that when she is quiet too. We think one suggestion might be she has been a quiet mare who has been allowed to do what she wants as it suited her owner and I am asking different questions of her which she resists. Another has been colic, being in season, grass too good and rich (she is a bit porky again at the moment), not enough work (although I was assured she was one of those that you could ignore and drag out of the field and would be no different) ......... all sorts of things have been put forward.

All I do know is that it does get me down as I feel I am going backwards at times with her. I just wondered whether you might have any ideas???

[mandal]

I do feel like a stuck record at times but I would look to her diet for starters. Magnesium and other mineral deficiencies as well as fluctuating high sugar levels in grass or hay are top of my personal list.
My mare that tends to be stressy and bossy with other horses has become totally chilled with soaked hay and specific minerals added to her diet. I have noticed a big improvement in her concentration, ability to 'wait' and especially her behaviour with the other herd members.

I reintroduced grass a month or so ago and am giving some un soaked hay and the improvement has been maintained so far. She has lost a good amount of weight which she needed to as well.

[happysnail]

It can be quite tricky without seeing behaviour. Jekyll and Hyde can mean a few things - she's slightly more introverted and bottles stuff up/ignores stuff until it comes out (like having a list of errands that you've got to get done and ignoring the stone in your shoe until it's so irritating you just take off the shoe and throw it) but it could be that her earlier cues are very subtle that you're missing them until behaviour becomes very overt (or any other number of causes with physiological/psychological elements). Could you get on any of the IH courses or work with an RA? Kelly's and Monty's books are so helpful too. A mentor is so helpful to give insights and support. Good luck. x

[holi]

She is on magnesium already as we are deficient in this area and she was getting much better. I have also given her charcoal snce the last episode.The weather is playing havoc with the grass though.

She is my first mare as I've always been a gelding fan and I'm just wondering whether its mares but when she bucked out and kicked out we were all very shocked as she has been out with this other mare lots of times without any problems. What is weird though is that sometimes she is totally chilled - yesterday the shoot were out in the next field. All horses running around like mad things except mine who was.... yes eating! Normally I'm trotting to keep up with the other two but today I really don't know what was happening.

[holi]

happysnail we have regular sessions with an RA who is really pleased now with how she is progressing. Its very very slowly with her as she has never been bitted properly and we do think she has been allowed to go as she wanted with no subtlety of speed at all. At last she was starting to listen to me but today I may as well of not been there - she was on her mission. I literally got her out of field, tacked up, got on and she was off down the drive - head up snorting, looking round, not listening, jumping at leaves, trying to bite other horses. Three days ago she stood quietly, sighed, ambled off - no fuss. The weather has not changed, her situation has not changed - I am confused

[Deleted]

I vaguely remember you saying when she moved she became very unsettled, after she'd moved to a new field with lots of grass and companions were over a fence from her, rather than in with her, is that right? If so, I'd be seriously thinking about getting her proper company, in the same field.

I'm a firm believer that if a horse has something stressful in it's environment, even if it only shows a very very low level of stress most of the time, that makes them less able to deal with additional stressful events, it's what can make them seem fine most of the time then they just flip, i.e. they can't take any more. Talin wasa like that all the time he was on individual turnout with horses in neighbouring paddocks. Some horses just can't live happily like that.

Ignore me if I've got that wrong lol!

[holi]

michellep - yes she is on her own and we do seem to be on these extreme highs and lows with her that come on for no apparent reason. I'm planning to send her off to an RA for a few weeks but unfortunately they can't have her until march as I just really want to get her sorted. Something isn't right and I just can't put my finger on it. She seems to be happy though and the YO has cuddles with her every evening - she seems very 'inward' if you know what I mean.

[Deleted]

Can you put another horse in with her?

Talin was always very cuddly, he was missing interaction with other horses so would lap up all the cuddles and affection he could get from any human who went near. When he was alone he'd seem fine a lot of the time, just grazing normally but any time one of his neighbours went into the yard he'd pace the fenceline and although he often seemed ok generally, it only took a small thing to tip him over the edge into being a complete idiot, then I wouldn't be able to get any sense out of him, just arguments and resistance to everything. Since he's had a constant companion he's the most mellow horse, easy to do all the time, it takes a LOT to upset him now and even then I can usually work through it and he'll become soft and easy again quickly. I think some of my fellow liveries thought I was mad getting another horse just to keep him company but I didn't want to move yards and his companion has been worth his weight in gold (and that's a lot ;D he's a Welsh sec D!!)

[curlytobiano]

Hi Holi - sorry i am a broken record too! I would say if there is a sudden bout of bucking / kicking have you had her saddle and / or back checked recently? I suppose teeth could be an issue possibly. Expect you have had all this looked at in any case. wishing you the very best of luck!

[holi]

I've got lots to think about next year with her - she is gorgeous and I'm going to just sort her out - just got to work it all out so I need a kelly on my shoulder lol!

[portiabuzz]

Sound advice above hope you both get there xxx

[shan]

Holi just an additional thought re girthing etc, do you let her settle for a while without food when she's been grazing before you ride? A friend's horse was very uncomfortable with saddling after getting grass-bellied, but when she was rested beforehand she was fine.

[holi]

thanks for the suggestions - I've been awake mulling it over. I think there might be lots of factors but something is central to it due to the way she behaves. I just don't know what will be coming out of the field each time I ride - she walks in quietly, stands quietly to tack up, you get on and then you know as she either stands or tries to rush off straight away. If you try to stop her then she gets in a real strop and she can be like it for the rest of the ride. Its as if some days she just doesn't want to do it and tells you!

[happysnail]

Mares can be really funny creatures and are so much more sensitive and reactive and hormonal than most geldings (that's why I love 'em!). You can't tell, you have to ask (politely) and with leadership but you can't make them do anything and they can get really stressed second guessing you and anticipating what you want and rushing. Could you vary the routine so that you go out in-hand sometimes? Or make up games- missions (like scavenger hunt, mapping your hack routes, recording geology, plant, bird or animal life - apologies I'm a geek - lol!) when you're riding so you have more of a 'job' and it takes the pressure off both of you. The welsh d mare I used to ride uses to rush round until we started stuff like that. She used to pull faces when I stopped to watch wildlife, check out plants, sketch or dismount and walk for a bit but she stopped rushing and was so bright, interested and loved the challenge of manoeuvring off road without rein to pick brambles and find nests. (The local raptor study group got some new kestrel and buzzard nests and owl sightings out of it and it was the most fun to collect beech masts, acorns, seed heads and fallen leaves for science club.). If you do decide to have a go, its worth noting binoculars will bruise your ribs (!), carry a notebook and pencil but dismount when taking notes and use a pencil with a cap as you don't want to accidentally stab yourself or horse(!), if you are going to be stopping and watching stuff for more than a few moments dismount so the horse isn't an armchair

[jen1]

i would still look at diet, mag is fine when the , copper, selenium , manganese etc etc is all in the right proportion, sodium, being one, you say she was on a mission was this a new place or new ride or doing it in a different order, she will also be picking up on your nerves i,