varkie
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Post by varkie on Dec 9, 2011 11:02:44 GMT 1
I think feed balancers are fantastic things.
In theory, we'd all test our paddocks and hay and know what our ponies needed supplementation in, and add that to the diet. In reality, while I may be able to test the paddocks, the hay has varying content, so that isn't a route to go down - I cannot keep testing hay constantly. So I feed a balancer to balance their requirements.
I went onto Top Spec after feeding one of the popular fibre based feeds for several years, and finding that my horses developed all kinds of health issues. I changed onto Top Spec, and all the issues cleared up. The horses looked healthier and happier than ever before - I have often been told I must spend hours brushing the dark ponies, as their coats gleam so. Truth being, I really don't - it's all from the inside out.
A balancer allows me to be very flexible - feed just the balancer to those at grass / hay and not needing a proper feed, or as the basis of a bigger feed for those with larger requirements due to work, youngstock, foaling, etc.
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Post by rj on Dec 9, 2011 11:14:31 GMT 1
Not a horse owner any more, but remember before such things as balancers existed. Horses seem to have done alright. I used to look after a hunter which was fed hard food including bran regularly plus the obligatory bran mash after a hard days hunting. She was always in splendid condition, would go all day, not be stupid even though she had oats (I think it was a traditional oat bran & chaff diet with sugar beet, and nothing else except a few carrots as treats) Most people I know use balancers now & I had to for Cushings pony who couldn't keep weight on, in his final year, but I do wonder what would happen if everyone stopped. Feed companies going down the pan no doubt.....
And don't get me started on dog food ;-)
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Dec 9, 2011 12:09:37 GMT 1
Not a horse owner any more, but remember before such things as balancers existed. Horses seem to have done alright. I used to look after a hunter which was fed hard food including bran regularly plus the obligatory bran mash after a hard days hunting. She was always in splendid condition, would go all day, not be stupid even though she had oats (I think it was a traditional oat bran & chaff diet with sugar beet, and nothing else except a few carrots as treats) Most people I know use balancers now & I had to for Cushings pony who couldn't keep weight on, in his final year, but I do wonder what would happen if everyone stopped. Feed companies going down the pan no doubt..... And don't get me started on dog food ;-) Couldn't agree more. I feed mine Winergy Equilibrium light, they get a handful, not the recommended dose that it says on the bag. I would have very fat (Nancy especially) horses if I did that. All have shiney coats and are healthy. My pony used to get sugar beet & pony mix and I was out comepting her every week, she did ok. There is just too much choice these days with EVERYTHING equestrian, it really is a mind field!
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Post by Teeni on Dec 9, 2011 12:58:31 GMT 1
I choose to use a balancer because i have to restrict my good doers intake. She is muzzled whenever at grass and her hay is soaked 12-24hrs, so i use a balancer to provide vits and mins that she is lacking through her restricted diet. All she has is a handful of Hi-Fi Lite, a mug of balancer and mag ox, simples and she looks great on that.
In past years i've used Top Spec which i found didn't suit her that well so changed over to Baileys Lo-cal and this has been great for her.
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Post by nich on Dec 9, 2011 14:40:51 GMT 1
hm - I don't chose to use Top Spec because it is 'trendy', I can assure you! I have used it for c. 8 years. I KNOW it works, because this year, i took Briosa off it for 6 months as I was using Thunderbrooks, recommended to me as a complete feed, and very likely to help with SI. I was told to take Brio off the TS, the result was, her mane never recovered from last winter's rug rubs, and her feet aren't growing as fast, I have to use hind hoof boots for hacking as her heels are getting worn away. and it didn't help the SI.
Autumn, I cut back to half measures - as people say they only feed half in Summer. she got lots of abcesses - she is an onldie who obvioulsy needs all her vits all year round. so ours are back on it.
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Dec 9, 2011 16:29:46 GMT 1
I have used top spec since it was first produced which must be close on 20 years. Equilibra and blue chip were also around at the time. So no not trendy or at least if they are they must be good to still be in use after all this time. Some trend I say. The youngsters are well grown on it and grow in a good shape even if they do look more mature than their years as they tend to have a better top line in my experience so are they worth it yes if you want well grown youngsters and horses with a good shape healthy happy and shiny with good hoof quality. Maybe not if you are on a close budget and you can get all the above from your existing regime. Some grass provides all this and some methods of feeding can too but balancers make it easy. It costs me about 75p per day to supplement all four of my ponies
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Post by cbc on Dec 9, 2011 17:10:21 GMT 1
Some good responses, I have found them useful with poor conditioned horses but for those in reasonable nick I am lucky that mine thrive without.
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Post by Hannah on Dec 9, 2011 18:14:11 GMT 1
I use Top Spec balancer. I have taken my gang off it a couple of times thinking I had found something better, cheaper etc but have always gone back to Top Spec. Their feet are great and coats shiny despite rarely being "properly" brushed. As varkie said they shine from within. Feet deteriorated and shine dulled when they were on other feeds.
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Bay Mare
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Post by Bay Mare on Dec 11, 2011 10:01:46 GMT 1
No, balancers don't balance, they increase the levels of the ingredients that they contain. This could mean that you can solve one deficiency but could also send something that doesn't need increasing over the top. You could also change ratios of things for the better or worse.
If you find a balancer that fits in with the deficiencies of your forage that's one thing but buying a balancer just because is no guarantee of doing good and, theoretically, could make things worse.
To really balance the diet you would need a hay and grass analysis, take into account bucket feeds and then balance with individual ingredients depending on the deficiencies.
I haven't fed balancers for years and it hasn't made a blind bit of difference.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 11, 2011 11:22:27 GMT 1
What you have to remember about feeding in addition to hay or grazing is that all grazing and therefore all forage has excesses of some minerals as well as deficiencies. Until you know what your excesses are you cant ever have a clue if your balancers are doing more harm than good. For instance, we have excesses of calcium, molybdenum & manganese, iodine is also a little high. So any seaweed is a no no so is anything with added calcium. Not because the excesses are particularly harmful but because excesses cause ofther, dificient minerals to not be used. Mangaese blocks the uptake of copper and zinc BUT increases the uptake of iron. High iron is dangerous because the body cant excrete it easily so we need higher levels of zinc as this helps. Although the levels of iron on our pasture are mean my ponies may have too much to to the enhanced uptake. Molybdenum blocks copper which we are low in. Same with zinc. Calcium blocks copper and zinc. So ay feeds with calcium are out for us plus I need to feed bran to get the ratio of calcium to phosphorus at the required 2:1 for efficient use of other really important minerals. Without analysis all feeding of balancers surely has to be of little to no value? I used to think its fine I will give them balancers and they will have enough of everything, what they have an excess of their body will excrete and everything will be good. But the excesses are far more important than the deficiences as I have probably very badly explained
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bicky
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If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got!
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Post by bicky on Dec 11, 2011 14:01:43 GMT 1
I've read all this with interest, especially because I have a youngster with recurring abscesses and I'm near the end of the line with him! Anyone got any experiences of feeding minerals to a horse with obvious feet problems? I'm going down the route of grass and hay analysis from Forage Plus (thanks Jen1) but for now have a receipe to feed him several minerals. This was recommended from Sarah from FP, but without the analysis I'm not sure I'm feeding at the correct levels.....well I doubt I am but anything is better than nothing!
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Post by Katieleeown on Dec 11, 2011 15:11:39 GMT 1
i can understand 'balancers' as such but what are you balancing if you con't analyse the forage? seems like and expesive guess to me? horses are all diff it probably does work for alot of them! Dare i ask how much the top spec comprehensive balancer is now? Amber has done sooooooo much better since i stopped feeding a 'balancer' and changed to forage diet - low sugar and starch with added linseed, magox and yesaac... I have since got the grass and forage (as i had bought a big batch of hay) and she is going from strength to strength. To me personally this now seems the logical solution and it's econimical to (esp when she's is on pergolide and nealy 50p or so a day) If i cannot get a big batch of hay again next year i will probably get the grass done again anyway to keep the diet as tight as poss.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 11, 2011 16:19:23 GMT 1
I've read all this with interest, especially because I have a youngster with recurring abscesses and I'm near the end of the line with him! Anyone got any experiences of feeding minerals to a horse with obvious feet problems? I'm going down the route of grass and hay analysis from Forage Plus (thanks Jen1) but for now have a receipe to feed him several minerals. This was recommended from Sarah from FP, but without the analysis I'm not sure I'm feeding at the correct levels.....well I doubt I am but anything is better than nothing! Bicky see my thread ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=119348The thread is about the pony I am now riding. She is three years old and home bred. Was fed on Baileys Stud Balancer in her first winter as she was kept inside during the night, good haylage and grass. It is because of this pony that I got our grass analysed by Forageplus in the end. She got an abcess as a yearling and had chronic white line disease from then on. Her feet have been dremelled away at the vets, disinfected with anything and everything yet the white lines were just soft and stretched. Her feet were properly trimmed very regularly and were a lovely balanced shape. She has never been fat, no pony has ever had lammi on our land and she certainly has never had any heat at all in her feet. I have been struggling with her feet for ages but now she is fine, she has shoes on to protect her feet until they grow stronger but she is very free moving and sound
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bicky
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If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got!
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Post by bicky on Dec 11, 2011 16:42:03 GMT 1
Thanks PN, I'll have a read with interest. Anything that might benefit him, I'll willing to try. What did the analysis flag up? And what are you now feeding? Do you feel its made a big difference? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks
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Post by donnalex on Dec 11, 2011 17:06:30 GMT 1
As well as a lumpy bumpy skin the pony had bad feet. Our land is high in calcium and molybdenum - both block the use of copper and zinc needed for good feet High in manganese - improves uptake of iron of which we have enough - iron is difficult to excrete Low in sodium which I 'think' helps the proper use of magnesium Low in magnesium which as well as many other things keep the white line attached to the laminae
I now have a bespoke feed plan which has helped loads. Jen1 has it copied - see if she will send it to you. My pony has only been on the minerals and new feed plan for about twelve weeks but already the farrier says the white line is improved. Now he has put it dow to the pony being shod, I would like to think she can manage with out shoes sometime in the future. He advised me to shoe her to protect the white line when we got on top of the rot which was right round the front feet. It was terrible. Time will tell. As well as the minerals she is on bran, oats, fast fibre and ground linseed. Have you got your grass analysis back yet?
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