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Post by happy2hack on Nov 4, 2011 1:06:39 GMT 1
Hi,
I recently (six weeks ago) bought a horse from Ireland - a lovely coloured cob who is fantastic apart from having a phobia about being shod.
She is currently shod in front only and my farrier is pretty sure that they are her first shoes as there are no old nail holes present on her feet. Try as he might he can't get her shoes off! She isn't scared of the farrier as she was happy for him to trim her hinds, he picked up her front foot but as soon as he began to tap at the clenches she jumped backwards and reared. He tried a few times but she wasn't having any of it.
He came back again today and we gave her some Sedalin paste - which did nothing and the same thing happened. She is scared not naughty so we think she must have had a bad experience having the shoes put on. They have to come off though as her feet are now overgrowing the shoes. The vet is coming out next week to sedate her so the farrier can hopefully remove them. We are then going to leave her barefoot until we can build up her confidence.
So, really I'm after any tips/ advice on how to proceed from here?
Well done if you got through all that!!
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Post by bonniesmum on Nov 4, 2011 7:19:07 GMT 1
Just a guess but perhaps her shoes were nailed through live hoof / white line and were really painful which may explain the fear
It sounds as though getting the vet to sedate her might be your only option. It will be interesting to see where the nail holes on the underneath of her hoof are
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2011 10:13:57 GMT 1
A few thoughts on this. Firstly, just because there are no visible old nail holes doesn't mean she's never had shoes. It only means she's not had shoes within the time it takes to grow a new hoof wall. It is, therefore, possible that she does have bad memories of having front shoes. There are, though, other reasons why she might have a problem. The first, of course, is pain/discomfort. A brewing abscess, for example, might not be to the level of causing lameness but may hurt when hit. Another reason could be that she's not as happy with the farrier as you think. She might then be ok with having her feet lifted and trimmed but when that one extra element is added it becomes too much. Another possilibity is that your farrier is holding her feet differently when shoeing or trying to remove a shoe than he is when just trimming. Trimming might be done with one hand, leaving the other to support the foot, where shoeing needs 2 hands, which then requires a farrier hold. Bringing a front let out to the side like that, then "trapping" it between his legs might be something she's not learned, finds uncomfortable, creates balance issues, etc. Plus others not listed here. As you can see, though, there are several reasons. I'm glad, though, that you've not included naughtiness on your list. She's certainly not naughty. The reason that Sedalin doesn't work for things like this is twofold. Firstly, adrenaline will break it down and therefore negate any effect. The second is that the way it acts is to try and stop the body responding - it doesn't, though, stop the awareness of what is going on or the feeling of fear. Even if, then, your horse doesn't move, it doesn't mean that it's any better experience for her. It can, in fact, make it worse, as the horse is being subjected to something and feeling extremely strange at the same time. What to do, then. Well, the best route is to call out your local IH Recommended Associate. They will be able to assess your girl, see if they think there is a pain issue, and set you up to work with her to overcome her fear. Yes, there is a cost involved but it's cheaper than repeatedly having to call the vet each time she needs her feet attended too. Even if you do decide to leave her barefoot, I'd still deal with the issue now. You never know when it might rear its ugly head (pun intended) at a later date. I'm a huge barefoot fan and for foot health would love you to consider not reshoeing her. It would, though, be good for you to have the option of shoes if that's what you later wish. You can find details of the RAs here: www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html |
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Post by mandal on Nov 4, 2011 10:24:05 GMT 1
It actually may well be her first (or intermittent) shoeing. Many horses here (round me) are only shod to hunt or be sold. Often they aren't trained just erm shod one way or another.  Great post from LizP. This is a thought provoking story. www.healthyhoof.com/articles/Gavilanandthefarrier.htm |
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Post by mandal on Nov 4, 2011 10:40:24 GMT 1
To add a thought. If tapping the clenches provoked the reaction as you say, pain would be my prime suspect. If a hoof is inflamed then tapping and rasping can be very sore. If the shoes are causing a big problem getting a vet to sedate might be the best option to get the shoes off. Then you can address training and any possible hoof problems in a less urgent manner.  |
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Post by outoftheblue on Nov 4, 2011 13:02:03 GMT 1
This is a far more complicated problem! My 12hh whp has never ever had a problem with his shoes. He just has fronts because he has an abcess hole growing out. Then the last time he got to the nailing on and went completely beserk. It clearly hurt him although there was no sensible reason why this should be - we have an excellent farrier. The vet decided we would put the shoes on under sedation (we now think this was a mistake) and no no-one can get anywhere near his feet. With much patience I have got him to hold his feet up but even the hoof pick held near to his foot causes him to pull away. The hole is nearly grown out. His feet have been X rayed and there are no visible other problems so he would be okay barefoot but I now have the choice of either sedating him to get the shoes off or spending a great deal of time re-handling his feet. We bred him and he has never had any problem whatsoever with his feet before. I would never ever sedate a horse again to put shoes on. He was telling us he didn't want them and I allowed my self to be overidden by the vet. Now I really do have a dilemma.
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pd
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Post by pd on Nov 20, 2011 14:39:37 GMT 1
Once their off, keep them off. I kind of like your horse's clarity in not minding the farrier, but objecting to the hammering sensation - smart cookie!
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rosi
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Post by rosi on Dec 5, 2011 16:44:21 GMT 1
Once their off, keep them off. I kind of like your horse's clarity in not minding the farrier, but objecting to the hammering sensation - smart cookie! Echo this. I have a 16.3HH TBxWB who is barefoot. He has never had shoes, but has lovely strong little feet. It is a good time of year to go barefoot anyway, so give it a try. "Feet First" is an excellent book as reference, but it isn't difficult to manage a barefoot horse! I simply feed no sugar, high fibre diet with magnesium supplement. It is certainly worth a try! |
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Post by outoftheblue on Dec 7, 2011 18:26:53 GMT 1
Well - we took Sparky's shoes off and within two days he had broken big chunks off both front feet. He now has stick on shoes - which cost £100 - whilst his damaged hoof grows out. This is turning into a real nightmare. Whoever said no foot no horse was so right!!
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Post by mandal on Dec 7, 2011 18:43:24 GMT 1
I wouldn't worry too much about the broken off chunks, they will most likely have been from over grown weak wall.  |
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Post by taklishim on Dec 7, 2011 19:14:00 GMT 1
when I was in a similar position I didn't sedate the horse just got the shoes off without trying to resolve the behaviour problems. I didn't tap the clenchs but rasped them off one by one. That way you don't have a panicing horse and shoes half off. Having rasped the clench you can then remove each nail. It was time consuming but scared the horse less.
Another thing that may work better than sedation is to try and find a female trimmer to remove them.
A trimmer would most likely have a stand to hold the foot when it was brought back so would avoid the farrier's hold that someone described.
A female doing the job in a different manner may avoid some of the association of the original farrier shoeing.
They may also be able to help you if you wanted to keep the shoes off.
I found that once the shoes were off the foot handling was very quickly and easily resolved.
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pd
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Post by pd on Dec 11, 2011 20:23:20 GMT 1
All horses are individuals, with their own history and experiences. It does sound like your horse has a reason to fear the hammer on his feet, the issue is why. Unless you can find the answer from the previous owner you'll have to figure it out yourself.
I took shoes of a pony 4 months ago and it was a complete wrestling match and very traumatic to do, rearing, collapsing, kicking - the whole shooting match!!
Two trims later, this pony is like an angel to work on. It was completely traumatised by being shod, but very quickly learned to trust me once I took that element away from his footcare.
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Post by outoftheblue on Dec 12, 2011 12:35:12 GMT 1
We will be able to 'trim' his little aluminium shoes off and hopefully Sparky will be fine barefoot then.
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Post by jen1 on Dec 13, 2011 11:25:13 GMT 1
I wouldn't worry too much about the broken off chunks, they will most likely have been from over grown weak wall. i agree with mandel it matters not how they look, but how is he doing in himself, there is bound to be some kind of infection and if this is dealt with he shold be fine providing his diet if fine |
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