Cost(s) of breeding?

[Kelly Marks]

Could people with knowledge of this chip in re. what it might cost to get breed a horse? We'd like to issue a warning in the Listening Post about people breeding horses and ponies that are likely to have no futures.
I guess some people go into it (like horse ownership) with no idea of the expenses involved. Then of course, some people get away with little expense (or maybe they've been clever and bought a low maintenance horse (is there such a thing?!) but get caught out with vets bills later down the line.
I guess a lot depends on whether you own your own post and railed land with folk at hand to give a helping hand at any time - and being married to (or better still being) a vet would be handy too!

[big e]

i think it depends on what you are breeding and why. If its natural or A1 or frozen.

I am going to have my mare covered in the spring, the vet is charging £220 for visits swabs etc and stallion if £350, with a further £15 if she doesn't take 1st time. If she falls straight away i hope there will be no further costs. If she doesn't its another £220 vet bill for each attempt. After that, i hope there will be no extra costs unless the foaling goes wrong . I am looking to breed something for myself but if the foal turns out to be to good for me to keep then i would consider selling it.

Last year my little Welsh A mare was jumped on by my New Forest colt. She had a problem free pregnancy and the only costs i have incurred so far, are the foals jabs and passport. I will keep the foal, i have no intention of selling her and if i can't ride her, i like to think in 4 years time i can learn to drive and drive her.

My two new pregnant mares, i have bought because i feel they need a chance, i have no idea what the foals will turn out like but i'm quite happy to take the gamble and cross my fingers that they both have healthy strong foals that may have a future. I'm not so sure about the mares as they are both over 14 and have never been ridden etc so i would be interested to see what i can get them to do once they have finished being mums.

[Caroline]

Thank you for highlighting an issue that is causing so much difficulty and suffering Kelly.

[sandy]

A problem that definitely needs addressing. There are just too many unwanted foals/ponies/horses already without more being haphazardly produced. Only experience I have of costs are when my friends mare foaled last summer and the foal needed a blood transfusion (or 2) and it cost £1600.

[Deleted]

I don't have prices .. but on top of the obvious vet and covering fees, you also have to factor in transporting your mare if you need to travel to a stallion and don't have your own transport.

Extra feed for the mare during pregnancy and while she is feeding the foal, probably supplements for both mare and foal.

if the worst happens and the mare dies during foaling or rejects the foal then you have to find a surrogate mare or get your hands on milk replacement and hand rear the foal (not a good option)

possibly having to send the foal for weaning somewhere else and having to pay for the priviledge

Emergency call out rates for the vet should the mare have problems foaling in the middle of the night/weekend outside normal hours/problems with mare or foal later on

possible treatment for the foal should it have problems with legs/joints etc

then of course it's double everything to keep another horse, worming, vaccinations, feeding, feet trimming, teeth rasping, possible wolf teeth removal, insurance, livery charges, feed, hay, bedding

depending on the breed of the foalie bum you may have to buy rugs and keep replacing them as the foal grows out of them/trashes them.

and on top of that you might end up with a horse that will never be suitable to ride, it's a huge gamble

[varkie]

Such a varying topic, depending on what stallion you use, and how lucky you are!

To breed my current youngster, Welsh X Spanish, I worked out that between stud fees, mares livery fees at stud, vets fees for swabs, vets fees for treatment to hold the pregnancy (her hormones were a bit odd), mares herpes virus jabs, and keep costs, it cost me about £1000 just to get the foal on the floor. It was probably cheaper for us too, as we are relatively experienced at breeding, and the mare had a straightforward foaling, so we didn't need to get a vet involved at that point. Then of course, there is the cost of microchipping, registering, vaccinations, etc. That lot probably cost me another few hundred pounds. So probably by weaning, including her costs, foal cost me in total £1500. Again, things are cheaper for us as we rent a whole property, meaning I don't pay livery on individuals, which others would have to do.

For some pregnancies, it can be cheaper still. With our shetlands, we own our own stallion, so pay no stud fee, no mares livery costs, if the pregnancy is straight forward there are no costs there as shetlands cannot easily be internally scanned and we own our own external machine, we don't vaccinate the shetland mares for herpes, and if all goes well with foaling, as we're experienced, we incur no extra vet costs. So, to get a foal on the floor could cost nothing more than the cost of keeping & feeding the mare, for us. Costs of microchipping and vaccinations and registering costs about £150, so that is the cost of getting a foal to weaning. If a foal is a colt, we don't believe in selling colts entire, on the whole, so we keep them until they are mature enough to be castrated - which may be at six months, or may not be until three years old, so we have the cost of their keep until then. Then there is the cost of castration. A standing castration costs us about £200 each. Add that to the previous sum, and it is £350 plus whatever their keep has cost, for as long as we have them.

However, the thing that has to be factored into everything is the 'what ifs'. Eighteen months ago, four weeks after foaling, one mare went into liver failure as a result of the strain of feeding her foal (it is believed that she has previous liver damage from before we had her, probably from ragwort or worms) and died after 36 hours in the vet hospital. That cost us £1500 for a dead pony, and an orphan foal whom we then hand reared.

We've also had a mare who was in vet hospital last year, for three days, after a super speedy foaling caused uterine irritation - I think that bill was about £800. Another mare wouldn't pass the afterbirth, so we had to have the vet out to her, the injection to help her pass the afterbirth then sent her into colic, which we had to have treated, so I think that bill for that night alone was about £500.

People need to consider that when they decide to breed from their mare - how will they feel if their mare dies? How will they cope with raising an orphan foal? We had to feed our little chap every 2 hours, 24 hours a day - can people commit to that? And there is the emotional distress - both to the owner, and the foal. Or what if it is the other way around? What if it is the foal that is lost? Or both?

Or how about if the mare gets into trouble foaling? If it's a red bag delivery, you don't have time for the vet to get there - the foal has just minutes for you to save it's life - by the time the vet gets there, the foal will be dead. If the foal gets stuck, similarly, the mare & foal may be relying on you to save their lives - do you know what to do if they are stuck, and how to help them? Tied to that is the time commitment needed to get the foal safely on the floor - can people sit up with their mare night after night, to make sure they are there to save the foal or mares life in the case of troubles? Once we know our mares are about to foal, we stay with them 24/7. Mares don't always give you clear warning tho - one mare last year was a month overdue! And gave no real warning!

There is so much to this that people just don't think of. They think of the cute little ending, but don't then think about how they get to that point.

[Zoe RA]

I always understood it cost about £7000 to breed and keep a foal untill it is 3 years old - depending on breeding and type.

[SarahW]

It would cost me hardly anything to breed a semi-feral New Forest foal if I took the absolutely hard-nosed approach. I could keep my mare out on the Forest all year round for the grand sum of £18 and its not compulsory to feed her, worm her or get her feet trimmed. She could then be impregnated by the stallion in my area for no cost at all. There is no cost to her foaling - and sadly this bit is true for me too - because she is likely to disappear just before she is due and will do it all on her own. If anything does go wrong and I don't fancy paying a vet bill I could have her shot at no cost by the local agister and if I wanted to I could transport the foal down to the local sales (fuel costs - phew!) and sell it for whatever I could get having never wormed it, trained it or even touched it - I would have to pay for it to be registered if I could be bothered and microchipped but not for a full passport. At the end of her breeding life I could just ship the mare off to the local sales too or have her shot at home.

I can justify continuing to breed unwanted foals by saying that I am saving the breed or conserving the Forest (and yes, that is some justification for a a certain number of them). It's only when the bottom falls out of the market (i.e. meat prices) that it isn't worth breeding anything.

Fortunately MOST of the commoners are not this hard nosed but some are.

By taking no responsibility for either the mare or the foal, you can make it very cheap indeed.

[troop]

i guess it costs around the same as buying a youngster really but with extra worry

[sarahbing]

Breeding Connies, it costs around £250 to £400 stud fee, plus livery for your mare (£80 plus a week). Thats the easy bit. Then vets fees for visit and scan ( they have to visit and swab first before the stud will take your mare)
Then a waiting game. Lots of TLC and extra care over nutrition until the day comes! If all goes smoothly, my vet stays up with her mobile if I ring her and tell her the foal is imminent. She is on the end of the line if things go wrong, as to be honest, if it does, it happens too fast for her to get here. No charge if I don't call her out 'cos she's fab!!
Then they have Tet jab (not vacc) and full check day 1 (£100 ish if no complications) Possible foal scours at day 7, which if you call vet is another £100.+
Then, if you have a colt, is cost of gelding (from memory £300 ish, plus one of my boys didn't stop bleeding, had to do drip rate measures and so on, could have been very expensive but fortunately resolved itself just in time, very scary though.
Basically, if you do it properly, there is no money in it!! If you have a good name in the showing ring and your offspring fetch top money, you may make a small profit without including your time in the equation. Otherwise, do not expect to make any profit, and you run an enormous risk of making a huge loss if things go wrong (which sadly they do)
I haven't even begun to include cost of keeping the foal and basic training etc, farrier, registration fees and vaccinations.
And then of course the difficult bit, finding the right home for your treasured offspring......

[sarahbing]

OOOh forgot booster jabs for mare prior to foaling, extra worming and like Varkie, my mare Melody had a retain placenta, so extra call out fees, prostaglandin injections, pain for my mare as it causes severe uterine contractions, not nice to see her go through, and a similar bill.

[jackiedo]

Me. Absolutely every intention to breed for myself. No intention of selling a foal. Here goes.
Swabbing of mare and checking of health. (can't remember) Transport to suitable stallion (£200 each way) keep at stud ( private negotiation) scan to reveal no foal but mare caught infection. Lots of vet visits, transport home, Local hospitalisation and tests until mare is clear from STD. All together over £1K and no foal.... tell me again why I bother, when so may poor horses need homes.

[highlanderpony2002]

I think my highland foal has cost about £3000 to get to six months that includes swabs, scans, pg, six months stud livery, transport to the best suited stallion some 200 miles away twice there and back, vaccination, registration, microchipping,worming and the post foaling vet check including IGg test due to her reluctance to feed at birth. I could have bought a similar foal for half that registered and just as well bred. Why did I risk my mare which could have been the ultimate cost because she is a rare breed,Her ridden career was in doubt due to an injury show jumping and I needed to keep her weight down while she rested it has worked out well but the foal will never financial be worth what she has cost as at a rate of £700 a year minimum ne extras included to raise her to ridden age she will have cost over £5500 to get to a viable age and uless she is very special she will never realise that on an open market.

[jackiedo]

Just want to say, one of my oldies, who's foal sold for 40K a few years ago, had a foal sold for £9K last year... recession as it is. And I think a mare by Halling, who's stud fee was , I believe 40K.. made less than £300 last month....
Not me though.... I got them after they finished breeding.

And Azlan, he has cost me a fortune so far.

[Kelly Marks]

Hi
Thanks for these (and any more added). I'm going to put together some of your replies to add to the Listening Post just to bring to peoples awareness. I think 'sharing experiences for the good of the horse' is one of the things the IHDG does best and really thank the generousity of so many DGers.
I'm aware I really don't thank you all enough!
Kelly