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Post by greyanbay on Dec 29, 2009 22:15:57 GMT 1
my mare is tb, 17 years old i have had her for 8 years now when she came to me she was very insecure, been through a dealers from ireland the girl i got her from brought her from dealer as she felt sorry for her as app she was like a hat rack. she was then on a yard with no turn out during winter at all. When i tried her out she was an angel but when i got her home to my yard she was very unsettled. box walking her bed was like mulch she used to trot on her front legs walk on back or vice versa. she got herself cast couldnt get her down drive for a hack etc. I was advised at the time to get rid of her. I also have an Arab who is very laid back and she began to stick with him as her little rock and i stuck with her to try and sort her out. we have been through a lot together she has taught me so much over the years it took her well over a year for her to really trust me but we have been out to shows done sponsered rides hack out on our own regualary etc. we have moved yards back in August the move went well both horses settled in fine have been hacking her out on her own round new area etc. my 2 are in a paddock together but next to them separated by electric fencing is a herd off 7. over the last couple of weeks she is box walking screaming and looking down yard over to field yesterday morning i arrived and she has sweated up throu box walking. my arab is next door to her she not on her own she likes zones me and him out as if we not there. she not eating her breakfast as so stressed, she even raised her back leg at me at one point. she is hauling me down to field to get there when we get there she rolls and walks off . settles right down. ridden wise she is insecure again spooking at everything like really over reacting spinning round in road etc we are now nearly 2 weeks with snow i have left them out at night with loads of hay to try and keep her calm. They are on Haylege this winter which is a first for them could this be too rich and triggerd some ulcers?? i now wonder if she had ulcers when i first got her as we now are discovering more about them.
Sadly tonight i was advised to keep her shut in her stable until she sorts herself out or to beat this problem out of her. i am shocked and upset that other horse owners can think this way.
Any advice gratefully received!
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Post by stablehand on Dec 29, 2009 23:46:33 GMT 1
At a guess yes good chance she has, If she's insured i'd deff get the vet to investigate if not there are things you can try this is the same as in gartro gard but not so effective but so much cheeper might be worth trying www.equine.omeprazoledirect.com/Then the next thing to try to do is work out what it is that triggers them for my old boy its traveling even though he loves going places, i just give him higher dose if he's going some where. Good luck
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Post by peppertop on Dec 29, 2009 23:50:23 GMT 1
The short answer is yes! It could well be ulcers. I suspect they haven't been triggered by anything and she has always had a degree of them but the situation lately has made them flare again. It is near impossible to treat ulcers other than with proper meds, they can improve when the horse isn't put under stress, but not heal. I spoke to my vet about a client of theirs that had owned a horse 10 years and just thought he was a bit sharp sometimes. Had been riding and competing him throughout this time. The chance came up to have him scoped for free and he turned out to have significant ulceration. When treated, the owner of the horse couldn't believe the change, as she had thought thats just the way he was. He was a completely different horse. The only way to know for sure is to scope, which some vets can take some convincing of. Its your money though and you can insist. If she is insured she will be covered if they find ulcers. If she doesn't have any, you will end up paying for the scope. I pay about £180 for mine to be done, but its different all over the country. I have had a few clients use Protexin, which has definately improved the situation, but not sorted it. Supplements can help, but most are expensive. In the long term it is probably cheaper to scope and know if you need to treat, rather than just supplementing. I have found a very useful source of Omeprazole, which is the drug used to form Gastro gard which vets prescribe for treatment. Unfortunately, without insurance it is very costly at around £25 per day and you may need to treat for up to 3 months, or more. www.equine.omeprazoledirect.com/ I have used this company for a few people that are not insured and had very good results. Works out much cheaper too! Personally if you are insured I would go down the vet route.
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Post by peppertop on Dec 29, 2009 23:51:13 GMT 1
Lol Stable hand beat me to it! We are on the same page about the ulcer thing!!
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 30, 2009 0:11:28 GMT 1
who are these owners advising you to do that?!? Hope it works out for you.....xxx
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shelley2
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Post by shelley2 on Dec 30, 2009 10:41:27 GMT 1
on the ulcer front one of the people you should talk to is trouble (snips owner) she has researched this quite a bit as her horse has them. its horrible when people who dont understand tell you what to do with your horse isn't it ?? i was at a livery yard that i believe you might know? ,where i was told "all this monty roberts stuff was the biggest load of rubbish", i should take a whip to my young rescue horse and teach him some manners!!!!!!!!! i hope shannon is ok and there are lots of people on here who offer great advice i really do hope you get sorted. and it goes without saying to ignore the yard owner
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Trouble
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Post by Trouble on Dec 30, 2009 10:58:17 GMT 1
I would normally jump in with advice on this, but seeing as Snip's have come back, again, I'm far from the expert I'd like to be.
When I crack it, I'll let you know how I did it.
But I would agree, that scoping and vet meds are the best way to go, if you are insured.
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shelley2
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Post by shelley2 on Dec 30, 2009 10:59:45 GMT 1
oh no sorry to hear that, poor snip
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Post by peppertop on Dec 30, 2009 13:02:04 GMT 1
I'm sorry to hear that Trouble. Is there a possibility he has any pain elsewhere? Bilateral fore limb and hind limb problems are common and although not easily picked up can be enough to cause stress and then the ulcers to flare again. Did he get treated with antibiotics when he had them before? Stablehands horse did and it helped but he still struggles. We have had others though that have responded very well to a combined treatment of Gastrogard, antibiotics and antepsin.
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Post by mandal on Dec 30, 2009 13:06:27 GMT 1
I was wondering about antibiotics for ulcers as they are used with some success in humans with certain types of ulcers now.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 30, 2009 13:09:12 GMT 1
Antibiotics are not used routinely for ulcer treatment in horses as equine ulcers are not generally thought to be caused by helicobacter pylori, which is a massive cause of ulcers in humans.
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Post by mandal on Dec 30, 2009 13:19:24 GMT 1
Thanks for that Jenny. Do they sample for culture when they scope or do you know whether helicobactor infection (or similar) has been disproved in horses?
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Post by jennyb on Dec 30, 2009 13:24:47 GMT 1
I don't know re horses - I haven't had one scoped yet! When I had a gastroscopy they took a small punch from the stomach lining to test for H pylori. I think they might have done samples with horses to get to that conclusion, but I couldn't say for sure.
I know they only tend to give antibiotics if the treatment with Omeprazole doesn't work with horses, not as a first treatment option. Mind you, they put me on Omeprazole before my scope, and weren't going to give antibiotics until they got a positive culture from the stomach punch! (Which they didn't).
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Post by peppertop on Dec 30, 2009 13:34:44 GMT 1
As Jenny has said, antibiotics are only used if there isn't a significant improvement on gastrogard in the first 6 weeks or so. They don't do a culture, just assume that must be the reason for no improvement. I don't know if its been proved or not, but I think its possibly not as uncommon as vets make out. 25% of the ulcer cases I know have ended up on antibiotics and responded to them. I can't remember the name of them now, but I do know that they are the same antibiotics that are used in people for Std's! Its great having to go into boots for a box full of them! Getting 60 odd tablets into a horse twice a day for 4-6 weeks is very interesting too.
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Trouble
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Post by Trouble on Dec 30, 2009 13:53:32 GMT 1
Honestly? I don't know any more. I have been through the full physical work up before - nothing....could it be something else? Course it could....but I'm damned if I can find out what it is.
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