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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 13, 2009 15:56:51 GMT 1
I received this email from a BHS Welfare Officer. I must admit it's one I just ponder from time to time - hadn't really thought about they're being 'an answer'. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on this - whether you have psychology experience or 'just' life experience ...
"I would like to know if any of your team can point me towards any research that has been done about the psychology of horse OWNERS. This may sound a bit strange, but as a BHS Welfare rep we occasionally come across sad cases where people neglect horses but we can\'t understand why they have them in the first place. Often these people don\'t appear to get any pleasure from owning the animals, maybe rarely see them, know little about them, but want to own them, even when there is no obvious financial motive since they are usually incurring debts all over the place. I feel if we could understand this a bit more we may be able to develop a constructive approach. Any suggestions gratefully received thank you."
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 13, 2009 16:02:50 GMT 1
Now, I HAVE started to think about it I guess it's just part of the same syndome of people who buy and hoard all sorts - and very often things that don't give them any pleasure. For instance women will often brag to magazines that they own 100 pairs of shoes. Now what's THAT all about (unless you're a centipede)? Actually I should do a direct link here to the "clear your cuboards for Christmas".
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Post by jill on Dec 13, 2009 16:12:43 GMT 1
I don't know about the psychology Kelly but I do know it is far easier to acquire than to get rid of - possessions, animals, property, you name it. I have for some time been pondering downsizing in all sorts of areas, but even inanimate objects are hard to even give away, let alone an animal who needs commitment and care. We seem to have an oversupply in all sorts of areas. And yes, no doubt there are horders of animals, you see the people on tv programmes who have dozens of cats, born, bred and just plain adopted. But how do you get rid of them without having qualms about where they are going to go to?
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Bella
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Post by Bella on Dec 13, 2009 16:34:19 GMT 1
mmmmmm.......interesting. I think you're right about people who "buy and hoard" syndrome. Could it be some people want to be like others i.e. if their friends are popular and have horses then this person would buy a horse, to be in the same social group - I think thats what i'm trying to say. I'm not very good at explaining I also think the same goes for every animal - maybe its the people you socialize with - this person wants to be much like them! Modified to say - I hope you understand where I'm coming from
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Lark
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Post by Lark on Dec 13, 2009 16:43:40 GMT 1
Ooh I just logged on to this....and it's something I ponder a lot also as I see it all around me!! My gelding is a victim of this and it wasn't a case of there not being the funds to look after him it was the the opposite! He was bought by a lottery winner who just wanted the kudos of owning a horse! She then neglected all his emotional and physical needs and broke him! Doing what I do, I could tell you about loads of other very scary cases but would be waffling on for another 3 pages! It's a strange syndrome that people take on horses (and let's add dogs and children too! ) and then seem hard-pressed to do the job properly! The level of neglect; although I think unintentional in many cases, is startling but is often allowed to happen if on the surface all 'seems well'. I know of other individuals who have a horse just to say they have a horse, but really invest no time in it's care and spend most of the time moaning about how hard it all is! When I had my shop; which was open 6 days a week, I had a daughter, 3 dogs and the 5 horses and 15 acres of land... and none of them had cause to complain as I made sure everyone/thing was looked after... so you can imagen when very often I would get customers in the shop with one horse on, say part-livery, complaining how they couldn't be bothered and it was too much especially in winter, I would find myself bristling and feeling very sorry for their poor horse. Locally there is a woman who 'collects' animals and I think she has a bit of a 'condition' and seriously doesn't have time to devote to them all individially and alot of what she does is for attention. Thankfully, she is an 'animal lover' and wouldn't intentionally see an animal suffer, but it only takes for a financial crisis in her life for things to go horribly wrong. She's a total ding-bat and shouldn't be allowed but as I said she does care; think of all those who really don't and the suffering that goes on.
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mozann
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Post by mozann on Dec 13, 2009 16:59:43 GMT 1
I've unfortunately known a couple of horses who have had the misfortunte to be owned by such people.
One so that the 'gentleman' owner could boast while down the pub "Oh I've got a stallion out of ..... " and then went on to ream off the bloodlines.
The second is a similar story, a father bought a 'pony' for his novice 10 year old daughter. When the Pony arrived at yard it turns out to be a half brother to Red Rum, just turned 4 broken but only just, stood 16hh definately not a novice ride or suitable for a childs pony! Now to listen to the man his daughter was going to the top with this horse, in reality she was terrified of it (hardly surprising, she'd only ever ridden dope on a rope riding school types) but too terrified of Dad to tell him. None of them had any idea of how to look after the horse and he spent Monday to Friday stabled relying on the YO to throw hay and water in each day. Then they'd arrive at the weekend expecting to ride. It took a series of luckily, minor accidents before he agreed to get a trainer for his daughter. The instructor wouldn't allow the girl to ride at all so he spent money for the trainer to ride instead, everyone tried to tell him it would be a long time before she would be ready for this kind of horse, but he just wouldn't be told. In the end the poor horse and child was passed from one instructor to another as each got tired of Dad's demands that they should be going to this show or doing this jumping clinic. It was so sad and very dangerous, no one could quite believe that this guy was prepared to put his daughter at risk just so he could boast about having Red Rums half brother. They owned this horse for nearly 5 years before the inevitable happened and the girl was quite badly hurt. The horse I believe ended up being sent to auction I only hope the next home was better, being honest I doubt it could have been much worse.
Sad Stories!
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Post by Catrin on Dec 13, 2009 17:09:40 GMT 1
There seem to be two types of hoarders, ones who suffer a type of OCD and those who were neglected as children and want to 'care' for animals, without any regard to the fact that they can't. One of the co-accused in a local case in North Wales also had hundreds of broken down Citröen CVs on the land as well. Try here for general information www.animalhoarding.org or here for some university research www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
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Post by lisap on Dec 13, 2009 17:28:25 GMT 1
The ones I see most of are people (mainly women) who are highly emotionally moved by the plight of any horse that they perceive as needing rescuing or care.
Now, all of us, unless we have hearts of stone, have that emotional response to animals and/or helpless people in great need or distress. However, most of us have that voice in our ears that says "This is terrible, but what will be the consequences for me financially/practically/etc etc if I take on this animal", ie we have a logical sense of the future and possible scenarios.
The 'hoarders' don't seem to have that little voice in their ear. They react to what is in front of them without any thought about the future and the practicalities of taking on a horse (or another horse, or other animal). This lack of that logical internal half-halt, or inability to envision the future as being anything other than positive can and does lead them to collect animals time and again, gradually getting into a bigger and bigger mess, until eventually they reach the very edge of the cliff and have to do something drastic to change the situation. (Or they just fall off the cliff into complete denial).
It's not just limited to collecting horses and other animals, but in this particular casethere is a physical manifestation of this type of thinking, ie fields full of horses. This inability to be able to consider a number of possible future outcomes other than a completely happy, rosy one, can lead people into disasterous relationships and terrible business decisions. This can all be put down to an extreme case of heart ruling head.
The other end of the scale is the individual who is so enormously conscious of the future possible scenarios that they cannot commit to anything for fear of the possible bad consequences of that decision. They do not allow their hearts to ever rule their heads, and try to lead a completely predictable, controlled existence.
Most of us, fortunately live somewhere in the middle where we can balance the heart and head most of the time, even though occasionally it is a bit of a struggle!
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Post by berrygrower on Dec 13, 2009 17:57:28 GMT 1
I'd distinguish between the highly sentimental type who may end up overestimating their resources but who also often help a lot of horses and the completely unfeeling individuals who can see their horses suffering and don't care. They've invested money so there must be something in it for them, maybe a sense of power being in control of what happens to other beings or a sense of status from constucting their identity as horse owners. But being able to watch the horses suffer knowing they could prevent it has got to have some sort of sadistic pleasure element and I guess that happens in all areas of life, I just hope humankind learn to cure/get rid of/ outgrow that terrible flaw.
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lindsas
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Post by lindsas on Dec 13, 2009 18:02:16 GMT 1
I agree - I think that sadly there are an awful lot of people out there that like the "status" of being able to say they own a horse. They think it gives a certain impression of themselves and their lifestyle to say they own one, and often aren't even aware that they don't have the knowledge or finances to deal with the responsibility.
In reality, of course, the lifestyle isn't one of poshness and glamour, it's more mud, stinky clothes and getting up at stupid-o'clock to look after them ;D ;D
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Post by Kelly Marks on Dec 13, 2009 18:50:32 GMT 1
Lisa P - Wow! "the internal half-halt" - that's fantastic! Catrin that link looks useful. And others for your comments - do please continue
For ourselves I'd say applying some 'mindfullness' helps - "How am I really feeling? What is this really about?" and I can highly recommend a fabulous little book called 'Clear Your Clutter with Feng Shui' - not suggesting everyone clears out all their horses I hasten to add - well not unless they feel they would be better off with someone else who has more time, land, resources, whatever.
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Post by arabmania on Dec 13, 2009 21:09:07 GMT 1
I don't always think its a case of hoarding. i often hear owners stating how they have little to no time to care for their horses but cannot bare the alternative ie... should they end up in a bad home!!!! which is quite understandable although in some cases dillusionable as the horses would no doubt be better off elsewhere. I think some owners simply cannot see the neglect they are causing their horses because they beleive they are looked after. turning up on a odd day and doing the 'rounds' gives this type of owner a good feeling that stays with them for days or weeks. unfortunately though it doesn't have the same effect on the horses.
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potto
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Post by potto on Dec 13, 2009 21:34:03 GMT 1
From observation.... I have seen horses as well as other animals used as a kind of ' munchusens by proxy' type scenerio..... the horse is ill or neglected which gives the owner lots of attention and sympathy.... and this can be in mild cases of... of 'my horse has a chill or seems a bit colicky today i will keep him in and rug him' to full blown neglect and starvation and leaving horses to die.
I have had people use there ages as excuses not to look after their animals, their own health, their finances, their fear, loss of interest and even some of them claim downright ignorance after years of welfare and professional advise, help and neighbourly support... Horses are also a financial commodity to some and neglect can actually save money for some.. I have seen Race horses farmed like battery chickens(I do mean in dark barns and overcrowded) and held dying foals in my arms waiting for the owner to finish putting water in his car before phoning the vet, On my immediate insistance! I have seen mares put back into foal with genetic problems knowing their foals wouldn't survive and sold at sales..... This to my mind is evil. I have seen horses taken to the knackers because they have been deemed as dangerous after napping and rearing due to being asked the impossible and being completely confused and responding the only way possible. I have seen horses die rearing over backwards when being ridden thru the same methods. I have seen illegal shoeing. I have seen illegal dealings. I have made many reports all of which have come to nothing... even though i have photos, evidence, documentation, dates etc.
I have asked my self many times why each individual that i have known have done these things.
The answers that i come to are that..... It is their culture. Because they can and they get away with it. Nobody says its wrong. It is rewarded by attention by either sympathy, education, help, support, or advice from outside agencies, do gooders, etc. It is financially beneficial at the lower end of the market to skimp. There is rarely a real price to pay for abuse. Your unlucky to get caught! Their is also a mile from what the horse welfare/rspca 'do in each area and their online and tv programmes and the 'real world'.... and what the charities are willing to persue with reguard to finances and staff capabilities and the types of people they have to deal with. Just a few miserable thoughts off the top of my head.... not necessarily right...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 21:56:02 GMT 1
Gawd only knows my sister and I grew up in the same household, had exactly the same upbringing but I have wanted a horse MY WHOLE LIFE, my sister is terrified of them and thinks I'm mental.. she could have a point . Why do I want a horse? I honestly don't know, I just know I do and my life is empty without one. What do I get from owning a horse, or being around one My clothes smell, my fingernails are black, my bones are busted, everything I own has hay or hoofpicks in it, I have no money and no time for a social life. But go to the field and see those soft warm eyes and have a hug of a chunky horsey neck and it's all worth it. However, something I have found to a larger extent (could be wrong) is that genuine horsey people prefer to be with horses (or animals of any kind) than other people. To me it's the unconditional "love", there is no ulterior motive, there are no demands and you can pretty much rely on an animal to be consistent within reason. I wonder if people who are drawn to animals have been let down by people at a fundamental point in their life and find it difficult to let people in but fill that emotional gap with animals? (speaking from experience) Hence the swing from over emotional attachment, to finding them too much of a drain (mentally, physically and financially), or the desire to have a horse as a status symbol or to exert control over. Someone also once said to me (when I was saying I really didn't want children) that some people were put on the earth to look after the animals, others to keep the human race going :0)
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Post by wendyihts on Dec 14, 2009 1:10:37 GMT 1
Don't know of any research on that topic in particular. There could be an absolute myriad of reasons that come out once you start to unpick the various strands. People could have genuine mental health problems, they could have other pressures causing them to 'act out' in a seemingly illogical way, it could be something about their values and upbringing... it could be family dynamics... they could have physical health issues.. or a combination of all the above and more besides. Knowing about some particular syndromes or specific mental health problems could be ' a bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing' because they're unlikely to get the full picture and it could lead them to unhelpful conclusions or actions.
However, I don't think the individual's reasons for being in the position they're in need to be known or fully understood in order for the BHS Welfare officers to be able to be more constructive (though I'm sure they're pretty constructive already!). After all, it's not going to be their job to counsel the person and help them get over their problems generally. It's MORE a question of being able to help people make changes from where they're at now, so that they make better decisions regarding the welfare of their horses. The BHS welfare officers could also then support them in that process and they could learn some ways of helping more effectively too. Plus, learning how to create boundaries for themselves so that they avoid becoming involved, either emotionally or practically, with the individual's personal problems.
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