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Post by mags on Jan 2, 2009 10:33:03 GMT 1
Taken the words out my mouth Jenny, if they are trying to buck you off something has gone wrong somewhere(guess that appplies to any age)
Funny I have the I should ride jack now. Mmmm yeah when he is so skinny putting a saddle on skin and bones has got to hurt
Ops excuse typing. Too many dooleys again!
Christ that makes me sound alchohic drinking again at this time. So edited to add its just because im waiting on a phone call to see if Jack gets to go on the same land as Dan. If not dont know what I will do. Perm loan I guess. Fingers crossed
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Post by Susan on Jan 2, 2009 11:21:57 GMT 1
If I had known then what I learned later I would not have backed Flynn at 4 and started any riding as I did. I bowed down to peer pressure around me because Flynn appeared to be ok. I then gave him the following winter off and brought him back to work the following spring and we had a much more mature horse BUT still in hindsight it was still too much too young. Big horse bigger joints still not matured. I wish I had not done what I did and had in fact only done more ground work. I am finding now with learning better riding skills having learned with a far better instruction method Flynn is now becoming the horse I always wanted. We do in fact have an issue with his near hind which means regular chiro treatment and schooling to allow him to move as he should, I do now wonder if we are paying the price of that early work. I now gringe when I read and hear of young horses doing so much too soon, just because they can does not always mean they should. We have no way of truly knowing what damage we are inflicting on those young imature joints till it is too late. Flynn has not had a hard life at all and in reality when the chiro has visted he would not have passed a vetting!! now how scary is that. So answer to the OP question I would say Yes and for longer then many of us have ever realised. I appreciate to breeders this creates a much more investment in costs in producing horses. To owners such as myself who bought my young horse for life if I had my time over again I would not have done what I did at his early life. At 10 he is now maturing to be a far more intelligent horse then ever given credit for. He is becoming such a great teacher to me now I am learning to listen even more to what he says.
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Post by horsey123 on Jan 2, 2009 14:02:09 GMT 1
i do really belive that poies age 3 should not be backed at all
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Post by nikki on Jan 2, 2009 14:31:56 GMT 1
Just to add an alternative view! Some horses/ponies mature earlier and often the ones that are highly intelligent really benefit from backing earlier on. I'm thinking particularly of a Welsh mountain pony that I had. He was extremely bright and a busy little soul who needed constant entertaining! He'd get bored if turned away for too long and start becoming destructive (bless him!). However, I did turn him away to mature after backing but carried on longlining and walking out in hand to keep him stimulated. I do believe that each owner needs to make a judgement call based on the individual horse. But as with everything it needs to be done sensitively & intelligently. I think if you back a horse at 3, then yes...they probably would benefit from turning away to physically mature. I would imagine that if you back at 4-5 turning away isn't as essential. But again, it has to what is right for that particular horse at that particular time.
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Post by arabheaven on Jan 2, 2009 14:46:05 GMT 1
I backed Zac at 3 and a half which, in the racing yard I was at, was obviously late! He was lead around the village with me for an hour every weekend so when he was 3 and a half I believed he was ready for the next step of work and backing him was no hassle at all. He was 'ridden' over the summer - halt, walk, trot and canter. He was then completely turned away in a herd over winter and came back in at 4 years old and we've had no issues.
Ori is 2 and a half and I wouldn't dream of backing her. She is growing by the minute and I will be taking her training by ear as I did with Zac. I will long line her and do a lot of groundwork with her next Summer when she is 3 and a half. If she is ready for me to sit on her then I will, if not then I won't. Either way, she'll have winter off and will be backed 'properly' in the following summer at 4 and a half.
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Post by wally on Jan 2, 2009 17:11:48 GMT 1
It depends where their head is.
If they have been over faced and made cynical with too much work too early, then it does them no harm. If you work them from 3 onwards in a sensible manner it is not necessary to turn them away. ETA, I start mine in the autumn of their 3rd year, ie 3 and a half, nearly 4. I play over the winter, then get going properly once they are 4 for real. But this is driven work, not ridden.
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Post by june on Jan 2, 2009 19:16:45 GMT 1
I very much doubt we'll back our two youngsters till they are 5, once the growth plates in the hocks have set. Before then we'll have done groundwork etc so the backing should be pretty inconsequential. They've had kiddies saddles on and had bridles on and know how to lead and pick up their feet, have been lunged for about 2 mins a couple of times, walked over poles, tarpaulins etc but otherwise they've done nothing more than be horses. Neither of them were remotely bothered with saddles or bridles. They are 3 now and still look very immature. I just couldn't imagine backing them now.
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HeatherL*
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Post by HeatherL* on Jan 2, 2009 19:37:14 GMT 1
Bella looked like a whippet at 3 there's just no way you'd have wanted to back her, in fact I bought her believing her to be two, the vet thought she was too so it wasn't just us being dopey, I finally found out her true age when I traced her micro chip back to Holland! She has been backed now and is ridden regularly but she'll be 6 in April and is looking a bit more substantial these days, but even so my expectations of her are pretty minimal we mainly hack out and have a short session in the school once a week.
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Post by confidentgal08 on Jan 2, 2009 22:44:10 GMT 1
Knowing now what i didnt before through experience with youngsters!!! I would still break a 3 year old and turn away for a bit to mature, if they are ready or if they still need more play time to grow then I would let that happen to. By breacking I mean they start to see intresting bits of tack ie the longreins and saddles but I would only get on in a few months down the line if he/she was understanding what i am going to be asking of them. (if that makes sense) this if started in the spring time would bring me up to the end of the summers months to sit on the horse and have a walk around and turn away for the winter to be brought back into work in the spring the following year.
This is how i do things but what do people do when it comes to the 4 or 5 year old or older horses that are broken do you still follow the turn away rule !! or do you carry on? intresting thread though
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Jenna
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Post by Jenna on Jan 2, 2009 22:57:36 GMT 1
I don't think it's got anything to do with what's going on in their heads, and whether they're mature mentally, it's got to do with whether they're mature enough physically.
If a horse is bored as a 3 year old, then you can do something, but it doesn't have to be riding work. Since she was a foal Kira's loved going out and about, and her third year was spent walking out, both in hand and on the longlines. I must have walked hundreds of miles following her backside!
I did back her in the spring of her 4th year, although tbh if I'd read the above article I may well have left it another year. But she's been ridden only lightly this year, no more than once a week and often less than that, interspersed with more long lining and in hand stuff. I haven't asked her to do any schooling or jumping work at all, we've concentrated totally on getting out to the places we've previously longlined.
I'm not going to turn her away, I'm going to continue to ride her once a week, for about 20 minutes at a time. Come the spring, I might up her work load slightly, partly because we're moving to new grazing soon and I think she might need more exercise!
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Post by june on Jan 2, 2009 23:52:39 GMT 1
One of my horses was backed at 6. I bought her shortly after she was backed. She has never been turned away since she was backed, although she has had a couple of weeks at a time where she hasn't been ridden because there have been too many polo ponies to exercise! It always took a couple of sessions to get back to where we were if she'd had a couple of weeks off. As with any green horse, the best way I found to work her at first was little and often, stopping as soon as we'd achieved what we'd set out to achieve in that session, even if we did that in the first 5 mins.
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Jan 3, 2009 0:11:25 GMT 1
I can understand proper hard work is going to be a very bad idea for young joints, but I suppose when to do it depends partly on what you mean by 'backing'. If by backing you mean proper work, walk trot canter and proper hacking and schooling etc then yes I'd wait until 4 or preferably 5. But I think having a light crash test dummy up there for a few mins occasionally for a walk around from around 3 is fine for most healthy youngsters and is unlikely to put more pressure on the joints etc than a big bouncy hooley around the field does Possible a bit of stirring here but.. those of you that think bucking means you're doing it wrong, what do you think of those horses that go to a Monty demo, have their first saddle on and have their own little rodeo around the round pen?
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Post by jennyb on Jan 3, 2009 11:00:01 GMT 1
melanie, most horses will buck a bit the first time they have a saddle on. That is completely normal and a natural reaction, but it shouldn't persist for more than a session or two. I think personally that if the horse is slowly introduced to a roller, then slowly introduced to a saddle, that the bucking will be kept to a minimum - it certainly has with my horse. I have my own thoughts on having a first saddle on then being backed all within the space of a demo slot, but that's probably another thread entirely! Let's just say I chose to do it a bit more slowly with my boy
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Post by wally on Jan 3, 2009 11:11:30 GMT 1
Have to disagree with the mental maturity thing. I started my 5 year old, and she was perfectly physically capable to do the work. Her head was not. So I turned her away again until she was 6 and then it all fell into place without a second thought.
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Post by horsefeed on Jan 3, 2009 11:46:08 GMT 1
I have 2yr old Exracer well she was 3 technically on the 1st, who has been raced and I just can't believe anyone would get on a horse so immature. She looks like a baby, she is still very petite and needs to fill out alot. She is also mentally very immature and looks like gangley teenager most of the time. I have turned her out and planning to leave her basically alone till august and then start lunging/long reining before turning away again until next spring but this could and proberly will change again depending how she progresses. I want her to learn to be a horse first.
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