shivering weight off - bad?

[beany1]

A client of mine has an obese highland pony - she is on a concrete yard, has a very tiny amount of feed, soaked hay etc - she is being investigated for IR/EMS as she is really so fat for what she has.

My client was going to to give her a full clip in the hope that shivering a bit of weight off would at least get some weight off her. She tells me she would put a lightweight on her in heavy rain, but otherwise leave her unrugged.

The vet advised her that she must rug her if she is fully clipped, and wasn't very keen for her to do this. Other than rainscald is there a reason why the vet would be so against a full clip on a pony that lives out? She is so worried about laminitis come spring.

[june]

Hypothermia?

I'd be very reluctant to turn out a fully clipped horse without a rug in winter. The horse would lose a lot of body heat very quickly in cold weather and could easily get hypothermia. It would be worth putting the hay inside two small holed nets to slow down the rate at which the horse can eat. That's helped a lot with one of our Shetlands who is on box rest with laminitis and needed to lose some weight.

[specialsparkle3]

I honestly can't believe what I am reading! Your client keeps a pony on a concrete yard, therfore it is unable to keep warm by exercising itself, and she wants to clip it out, and leave it without a rug to SHIVER it's weight off

I am completely shocked

[basilhorse]

2 small holed haynets one inside the other does work as june said. is there any way the pony could undergo an intensive exercise regime?

[beany1]

The yard is really big! Also a walk-in-walk-out stable, she keeps her like that so she can move about more than if she was stabled. Sorry, sounding really dense I know - there is always soaked hay available in a small-holed net. She is in the process of backing her and is aware she needs to exercise her more - that will be key I think.

I think she is really worried about the obesity thing, is perhaps going down the wrong road. I wondered, if the horse has tons of fat, if shivering weight off is a bad thing, and why? Sorry if I'm not being clear, not sure how to word it....

[mandal]

Tbh Beany1 I think it's a bad idea. It is not a way a horse would loose weight and I think clipping in winter for that reason alone is not valid. The horse needs it's coat not just for protection from weather and heat regulation but from protection from knocks,scratches etc. I would imagine the heat regulating system will go haywire and using a rug to keep rain off wont be enough.
I think you should pass on June and basilhorses advice of 2 small holed haynets filled with soaked hay and I'd stop all feeds ( mta to say I mean hard feed! Give salt and mineral lick of course.) and increase exercise. She could be walked out in hand surely on a regular basis...20mins good walking 2-3 times a week I believe is enough to speed up metabolism.

[breezy]

My reasonably well covered connie lives out in a well sheltered field with a low chaser clip - only rugged if it is really wet and cold. He rarely shivers though - and I've checked him at 2 in the morning. He grows a stupidly thick long coat, and suffers badly with sweet itch, and gets too hot in his own coat would you believe! He also gets pretty much ad lib hay.

But no, I wouldn't dream of full clipping him and leaving him unrugged - I suppose your client could also get away with a very low chaser clip, but the best way to get weight off is exersise - is there anyway she can increase this?

Bx

[beany1]

Yes I guess spending all winter shivering is not nice too. I'm sure I read a thread about shivering and a cold horse being bad for laminitis - very vague recollection? I hoped if there was an adverse affect I could feed it back to her.

I don't want to bad mouth her as she is wanting to do the best thing, she is a very caring owner and I can see why she is worried, this horse is so hugely fat, I have never seen such a fattie.

[Oranges]

Never heard of doing this to lose weight. Dosent sound good to me, i no myself when i shiver my muscles end up hurting and i get a bad back, surely would be similar for the horse, plus she will be unhappy and grouchy.

Could she not keep the pony on the yard in spring?

[beany1]

I'm sure she will keep the pony on the yard in the spring!

I have said that I'm sure exercise is the key, she is trying to find someone to help her. She too has a very, very thick coat - curly on the legs. She is only 5 and vet says too young for Cushings.

[varkie]

I have clipped some hair off fatties before to help them loose weight, but never more than a neck/chest and maybe tummy clip, and I would never allow them to be so cold that they shiver. I don't think there's any harm letting them have to work a little harder to keep themselves warm, but they should not end up actively cold. In addition, most ponies I've had to done this with, have lived out 24/7, so have been able to move around to keep warm, unlike this pony I would gather, if it is on a concrete yard?

How long is she soaking the hay for? When we've had a pony with suspected metabolic issues which had to lose weight, we were soaking her hay for at least 12 hours at a time. She then got that adlib, as well as two small feeds of unmollassed sugar beet & fibre cubes, but minimum balancer, so that she got her vits/mins. We also made sure she got daily exercise. She lost weight very well, on this regime.

[gingerloon]

i can't believe I've read that right !! clip the coat out and leave the pony to shiver !! that's awful :<

I'm sure with proper management and exercise the weight will come off. the other option sounds like a recipe for disaster and one very miserable pony :< I'd go for a very restricted diet with hay that is just more roughage than high quality weight putting on hay and lots and lots of walking out

How has she ended up with that much weight on? was it sudden or has it just been poor management? I don't know much about cushings but given (and I could be wrong) it's a tumour on one of the glands could it possible it's that, regardless of age? do they HAVE to be old to get it?

[beany1]

I'm not sure gingerloon, this is only the second time I have seen her. She does soak the hay for hours but not sure how many. Sounds like the pony needs intensive management for a while.

Varkie the yard is large, about 15 'stables' size, if that makes sense - the paddocks there are quite small and very poached, her feet are really good for being on the concrete. There is a small muddy area too which she rolls in. I have no concerns over the way she is being kept - I would love to keep my fattie like that I think it would be ideal. It was just the 'shivering weight off' thing I was wondering about.

Thanks for the replies!

[specialsparkle3]

Beany, I call a pony exercising itself, one who is able to trot and canter freely. Not the sort of exercise a concrete yard affords, no matter how big. Does she not have a bald field it can go out in at least in the day, then it can pick at grass ( which has less feed value than hay at the moment, and have a canter if it chooses. The pony could then come in to soaked hay and vitamins and minerals and should lose weight quite satisfactorily.

If this isn't possible, daily walking is imperative IMO.

[june]

I'd have thought clipping the horse out and leaving it to shiver would be pretty stressful for it which in turn wouldn't be beneficial to the laminitis situation. Stress can be a trigger for laminitis.

As has already been said, its one thing to make the horse work a little harder to keep warm with a belly clip but a whole different ball game to give it a full clip. If the body temperature drops too low the organs start shutting down. Shivering is the first stage in that process as the muscles try to generate heat but if that is insufficient then the metabolism starts to slow down which wouldn't help with getting the weight off and could have pretty serious consequences for the horse.