Barefoot Help

[jennik]

I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice on going barefoot.
I have a 7 year old that I've had from July, he has had alsorts of problems and can't be ridden, so I decided to take his shoes off as his immune system has been very low and they were coming off all the time anyway.
We have a very good farrier and he had a look at his feet before we took the shoes off to make sure everything was as it should be, he trimmed them and was happy enough to leave him barefoot, but from he has had them off (2 weeks now) he is walking as if on glass, the farrier has been back to check and theres no bruising and his legs are fine.
He is bedded on straw and has to walk across a concrete yard to a school for turn-out.
If I have to put his shoes back on so be it, but as he's not being ridden I'd really like to keep them off even if its just to spring, as part of his problem is he's depressed in his stable and if he's not wearing shoes he can have a little time in the feild or on the garden if the weathers not to bad.

Any help would be good as he has been though so much in the last year

[Karon]

Bit more information needed (and I'm sure others will think of more) - what sort of problems has he had, what is his diet, how much hoof did the farrier take off (sounds like too much if he's that sore ), what are his feet like apart from sore, have you tried boots with pads, any chance he may have/had laminitis?

Straight off, I'd say the farrier has been too enthusiastic in his trimming. It's worth getting some hoof boots and trying him in them, even if it's just to walk across the yard. They will help protect his feet and if you can turn him out in them for part of the time that might make him more comfortable, too.

It's very early days and if he's been shod since he was 4, say, it might take a bit of time to get his feet used to being without shoes.

I'm off now but will have a think and I'm sure others will be able to give advice

[ruthp]

I have to admit reading this I too immediately wondered if there could be any other cause for the lameness, such as laminitis. Don't really know much about the subject, but both my horses are barefoot, one having been shod most of her life, and we have a similar set up with some hard standing. Never seen either of them have this sort of reaction. Is it all the feet that are sore?

There are a lot of people who know a lot more about barefoot who post on the general board, so it might be worth putting a query on there. Boots might be a short term answer if it really is only footsoreness, but they are expensive, and I wouldn't want to turn mine out in them for any length of time unsupervised.

[taklishim]

your horse doesn't sound as if he is on grass so I would think low grade laminitis was relatively low on the list. I am afraid that the first thing I would consider was that too much has been trimmed. Did you watch your farrier trim and if so did he rasp anything off the underneath (sole)? If too much has been taken off there is nothing you can do about it other than to let the feet re grow.

The only thing you can do in the meantime is to make him more comfortable. I feel it is important not to leave horses footsore because they move badly and I have seen it then affect them all over, especially their backs.

I would see your options as either to shoe him immediately, leave them on for a good 6 weeks and then try again. That will give the feet time to grow and if too much was trimmed off this time you will be able to make sure that the trimming is restricted next time.
Hoof boots which are expensive but a good solution especially if he is to be kept unshod and perhaps exercised in hand or even ridden in the long term future. If he had hoof boots could he go for a walk in hand to eat off the hedges to cheer him up? Just an idea.
The third way is if you cannot pad his feet with boots you pad the yard ie a length of carpet over the concrete etc. This can usually be obtained very cheaply or for free however it depends on whether the yard owner minds and if it is feasible to run a carpet walkway down for him.

[rifruffian]

Original post indicates horse is not lame, but tender feet all around. Best to permit horse movement at liberty in generous sized paddock. If foot problems did not exist prior to shoe removal, tenderness should vanish in a while. (When this initial tenderness has gone, important to exercise barefoot horse regularly over hard surfaces.)

[beany1]

Where abouts are you Jennik?

Ah I remember you had the horse with lots of problems with his immune system - he is a lucky lad to have you!

I think you need to have the advice of an equine podiatrist - could you afford to have one over for a one off visit? Solemates pads are wonderful for supporting the feet, but as before said there are many reasons why this horse might be sore.

Keep up your good work, I admire you for helping him.

[mandal]

May I ask if his feeds contain molasses? Does he have a metabolic condition? Both these things can contribute to low grade laminitis as well as full blown.
It does sound like his soles are too thin and for immediate relief for him the carpet idea is a great one!
I also feel a competant trimmer assessment is a good idea as they will have a good idea what to do that will help his comfort which is the most important thing. Many trimmers also fit/advise on boots too.
If it's practical deep shavings in his box may be more comfortable for him as they mould to the shape of the hoof and give better support than straw for very tender feet.
Hope he improves soon.

[june]

It does sound like the farrier has taken off a bit too much foot, but hard to tell what's going on without seeing the feet. We find that horses can be footy for 2 or 3 days after coming out of shoes but after that they are at least paddock sound. It would be worth consulting a DAEP for advice. You can find the nearest one on www.equinepodiatry.net. It may be you need to do some conditioning and walking in pads etc but a trimmer would be the best person to advise you on that.

[Karon]

A horse can have LGL without being obviously lame, just not look right - and they can get it on hay, too, if they're metabolically challenged.

When I had a farrier trimming mine, they'd be sore for 2 or 3 days after every trim and I was told this was normal

[jennik]

Thanks so much for all the ideas, I wouldnt ever have thought of laminitis or looking at his feed but yes you right I should have.
This wee horse came to me because at the time he was very ill his owner couldn't deal with his problems and the yard he was at at the time just wanted him out, so he had no were to go.
He has been very underweight so I've been giving him lots of haylage, ponynuts,chaff,garlic and carrots, hes put weight on put still looks quite thin, he windsucks so that doesn't help with the weight at this time of year and the depression not great either.
The farrier I use is a remedial farrier, it took me two years to get him as he doesnt take on to much work and I did watch when he did baileys feet and didnt think he took to much off. but as youve rathered feet are not a strong point with me.

Karon good idea about boots at some point I'm going to ride him and that would be the best of both worlds.

Ruthp all his feet are sore at first I thought it was only his back rear-side leg as he has a sarcoid on the top of it that burst and just wont heal, so when he looked lame I thought it had got infected, thankfully its not.

Taklishim, the idea of the carpet is class my husband already thinks I'm mad when it comes to my horses and when he sees what I'm about to do! I can only smile. But if it helps I will give it a go.

Rifruffian, you're right there was not sign of lameness before I took the shoes off but his shoes lasted about 10 days before they started to come off one at a time. he has turn-out in a school everyday with my other two horses (one Irish Draught and a New Forest Pony)

Beany1, thankyou so much for your support, at the minute I could do with a hug my ID the love of my life as just been diagnosed with navicular (will check spelling) oh and please dont tell my husband he thinks he's the love of my life

Mandal, I will have a look at his feeds there is molasses in the chaff as I can smell it, I'm not sure what metabolic means can you explain it to me.

June, thanks for the web site i will have a look, but I'm in the North of Ireland so I'm not sure if there are to many trimmers here but thankyou and I will have a look.

Thanks again to everybody for taking the time to help, going barefoot is something I'd really like to work for this wee horse and my NF pony. I've read lots on it in the pass few weeks and with a lot of help from here I hope its onward and upwards for my boys.

Sorry didnt realise how long this had become
Jen x

[Karon]

Shoes can easily hide the start of LGL

A metabolic problem means he is, put simply, a good doer - gets fat on nothing, gets cresty on grass, hard to get weight off. If he's cresty he could well be insulin resistant (don't ask me to explain it as I can't, my vet explained it to me and it mainly went over my head!) - magnesium will help with that. I wonder if he has a metabolic problem along with his other problems and that's causing LGL?

Carpets are great for sore horses, or you could do what I did and rubber mat the yard The yard I've got had rubber mats down in all the stables when I moved there so they all came out and went round the yard 18 months after I put them back and I still can't get the stupid things to fit back properly!

[june]

If his feet are that bad the shoes only stay on for 10 days then you may need to do some conditioning work on them. Turning them out in pads is pretty useful. Again, you can get pads via the equine podiatry web site.

LGL is surprisingly common. You notice it much more in barefoot horses and catch it early. Shoes seem to mask it so if you do notice it in shoes it is at a much more severe stage.

We host most of the UK KC courses and there were a couple of farriers from Ireland on the last course, although I don't know if they were from the North or South. I'll see if I can get a contact for you. Might help to talk to someone closer to home.

[jennik]

Hi Karon, no he is not a good doer, when he came to me in July he was skin and bone. I put him in Macs stable until the vet could come out to have a look at him, he stood in for about a week as the vet was on hols so it was mid July before he went out to grass, even then he had to be rugged because he couldnt stand the cold.
Just thinking I'd better describe him, as I've already said he's 7, not a full TB but he looks like one, he has really fine legs and small feet (3 dark and one white)and hes 15hh but looks more like 14.2 and a chestnut. I did see him once before he was sold to the person I got him from and then he was very thin but he went like the wind, the boy riding him was far to big and heavy so his back was very sore and his saddle wasnt a good fit, all that has been sorted now.

June thanks that would be good, sometimes when I read things on here it feels like we live on a different planet, its only 22 miles across the water but you all have so many more options

Jen

[Karon]

It was worth a thought At times having a good doer is a pain but at least then you know what you're dealing with.

Has anyone suggest you check his digital pulses? I'm not sure if they'd be up if he's sore rather than having LGL but at least if you can't find them that helps rule out LGL. (I think? It's one thing I do with mine regularly all year round and assume that when I can't find a pulse they're OK).

[kristine]

Can I ask a stupid question? You all use different terms for some horse stuff I don't recognize... is "LGL" low grade laminitis? I haven't heard "LGL" before, over here its chronic or acute founder. We all speak English, but us horsey people are weird!!!

I am also wondering if "strong" iodine (7% or higher) is available in the UK. It does absolute WONDERS for soft, bare feet until the foot can toughen up naturally. Using a a couple times on the sole will create a callous on the bottom of the foot and provides alot of relief for limpy ponies. Works good on thrush and fungus, too...

We are having a hard time getting it here because its one of the ingredients used in making "meth" or methanphetimine. Bad news and too bad for horses!