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Post by iceberg on Mar 23, 2007 11:31:32 GMT 1
Im like a bad penny I keep popping up ha! ( I like to lurk mostly)ha ha
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Post by julz on Mar 23, 2007 11:49:41 GMT 1
Sorry to disrupt, but i don't believe in using a bit to encourage any horses head up... the only way to get a horses head up (IMO) is to use the "hold and drive" method... "hold" with your hands, with a good contact, not overly so (don't want to be forcing his mouth open), while at the same time driving him on with your legs/seat... thus pushing him up and into his bridle.
If you put in a bit that your horse does not like they will either come above the bit or overbend in an attempt to evade the pressure it gives, either way you will not have a contact, and since your lad is only 5, a bit more schooling for him and for yourself would be in both your best interests. The fact that he stuck his head between his legs and bucked, is what any horse does to get a buck in...mine included, and by the sounds of it you did really well and sat them! Hey, couldn't have done it better myself!
Try this next time he goes to buck (if you can remember to) A horse cannot buck if his head is screwed to one side... so lift one rein, either one it doesn't matter, and lift it as high as you can, thus pulling his head sideways, and driving forward at the same time... it is only a short term measure, but may work enough for you to regain control.
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Post by chrissiew on Mar 23, 2007 11:54:12 GMT 1
Oh god sorry!!! Very good point Smudge - please try any new bit in a safe environment first. Smudge has reminded me that years ago I tried a three ring on my mare and she HATED it with a passion, but went superbly in a pelham in double reins, so it is a case of what suits one suits another.
Feel really bad at not pointing that out - the dangers of these types of forums!
Kya, I would personally try the three ring with one set of reins - I now purists will say it should be with 2, but many people have good success with 1 set of reins. Use it on the main snaffle ring first and see how you go. If you feel you need a bit more effect, move the reins to the middle ring. I would very much doubt you would need it and wouldn't recommend using it on the bottom ring on a youngster.
As Smudge says though, if that doesn't work, try a pelham (would recommend double reins on that as hate roundings) or a kimblewick (a very forgotten bit which used to be used with great effect on strong pony types).
I know people who have also found a waterford snaffle to be very useful for strong cob/pony types, as it doesn't allow them to fix and hold the bit, but is not severe (well suppose that's open for debate).
I would also add, that don't fall into the trap of just switching to a stronger bit and using it for everything. Only use the stronger bit for specific activities that you are nervous will be a problem, ie cantering company and combine with training exercises as others have detailed and using his normal bit for schooling/hacking alone etc where you are more comfortable and in control.
Hope that helps.
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alfie
Advanced Poster
through and through
Posts: 387
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Post by alfie on Mar 23, 2007 12:02:18 GMT 1
HI, alfie does this as well when things are very exciting only usually in fields and only in company , , its horrid and well done for sitting it. alfie has a 3 ring gag for no other reason than abs brakes if needed, we have just changed it to a 3 ring with a link as without the link it was acting as a nut cracker on his big old mouth and he was bringing his head up to much, with the added poll preasure he was a very uncomfortable giraffee . we are introducing this new feeling in his mouth slowly and he is having lessons with a very capable friend once a week to help get over our little hik ups, i am desperate to ride him in the school, but he had a cob on last week and leah rode him through it brilliantly, rather than me expecting us to die and alfie adding to my story. don't be afraid to ask for help of any kind and don't be afraid to choose your riding company wisely for a while, Take care honey, well done, keep at it
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Post by lcardwell06 on Mar 24, 2007 22:47:07 GMT 1
my horse behaves like that in company, anything more than a trot hes a complete tw--, very scary at my age dont do that no more but hes here to stay , someone told me to do the same thing , didnt do it bit wiser now , funny but no one else offered to gallop him either butter would not melt till you start to canter out, do what you want and enjoy .
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Post by kya on Mar 25, 2007 9:09:49 GMT 1
Well, as posted, we had a great ride yesterday and will go out today. I kept his head up and drove him on (not coming forward to free his quarters- misguided help for the hill- not for now!!) I have decided to hold off a change of bit and ride through this period of his education with the loose ring snaffle. Even the hanging cheek upset him and caused a lot of head throwing. I posted too, that I used a rope around his neck in my hands like the top rein of a double bridle to steady my fingers and give him some confidence (from Linda TJ).... it really seemed to work and gave me something to grab if we had gone wrong. Canter was perfect, bit on-going and bouncy, but 85% better. This week, I will ride in front of my pal at some stage on the safe forest tracks and IF it feels right put in some strides of canter. Thanks for the advice about re-bitting. I don't feel Blue needs a gag- he needs schooling and socialisiation.... er, and a competant rider.... whoops, that will have to be me. Thanks X.
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Post by kya on Mar 25, 2007 9:10:09 GMT 1
Julz... very useful advice... thanks a lot.
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Post by MirandaSophie on Mar 25, 2007 9:13:26 GMT 1
huge well done Kya! You should be really proud of yourself
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Post by chrissiew on Mar 25, 2007 17:43:19 GMT 1
Yay well done Kya - great news.
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Post by fee on Mar 26, 2007 14:27:07 GMT 1
Oh Kya, please don't feel humiliated - you are the sensible one here wanting to solve the problem for your youngster carefully and on a long term basis so that in the future, you'll be enjoy to enjoy long, controlled canters. It's your 'friend' who is the one who should be sorry - if she's not able or willing to help you by supporting you through this, perhaps you need to try and find someone else to ride out with whilst you sort this issue.
And yes, I am speaking from experience - what you described is exactly what my boy used to -and I spend a long 2 hours walking home the first time! He was fine - had been collected by the friend who'd taken off in front of us, causing him to buck and bolt. We were doing ok til he jumped a puddle and threw me off balance. I'd have been able to get it back, but he decided to swerve round the next puddle, and I departed stage right!! LOL (now, not at the time)
What we did was exactly what people have been describing - we started cantering up hill, on our own again, to rebuild our confidence, then a friend, who knew the probelm and was willing to help, came with us, we'd canter and kept her horse behind. Even that blew his brain the first few times, but he got used to it. Also, sometimes we'd walk or trot up the hill so they didn't get 'we always canter here' excited.
Then, over time, we had a go with him behind - the first couple of times he just barged past, but Fran was just brilliant and kind, and forgiving (esp as her horse is much faster), and we persevered. It was brilliant, the first time we started with Tigg behind, and finished in the same order. The next time, he was horrid again, but gradually we got to a stage where he was always excited, but it was controllable, and fun!
So what happened next? He went long term lame, and we'll have to do it all again when we get to ride again - aaaaaargh
Sorry I've gone on here - hope it's useful. Chin up Kya - I don't normally get dogmatic about these things, but IMO (and experience) you are on the right track here, and she's wrong. Fx
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Post by kya on Mar 26, 2007 22:15:47 GMT 1
Thanks Fee.. don't mean to giggle, but your description was wonderful, especially the back to the beginning element. I have reconnected with Blue on a couple of nice rides (with solo cantering) and will try another ride in front of my friend. She's not to blame.
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emy
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,169
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Post by emy on Mar 28, 2007 11:19:48 GMT 1
Glad its going well now kya,have just caught up with this thread. I wouldnt change his bit either,my boy used to do this when younger-and still does sometimes(I never go in open fields on him..).The way I used to stop him was by not letting him get into a bucking position in the first place.Sounds easy dosnt it,not!I found if I stopped the foward impulsion by holding up his head in antisipation,all his energy would blast out by perseveering in boucing along-at walk pace almost.Then I would push him on he would run into a buck!Its not an easy one but what worked for me was practice,lessons and the confidence to tell him what I wanted,not ask.At that time in life he needed telling and direction.Now hes push button,most of the time,but still an ar*$ in open fields,or at least I think he is.Thats my next target,to enjoy a sane nice canter in an open field on sim Hope it goes well kya
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Post by kya on Mar 28, 2007 11:30:41 GMT 1
Thanks Emy... see my other thread for recent developments... or lack of them. Not down hearted. We'll get there. I do canter my boy alone, but prefer tracks rather than 100 acres of open head space!
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