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Post by antares on Feb 14, 2015 19:49:06 GMT 1
For those that don't know, a stallion called Cruising who was the most prolific sports horse sire based in Ireland before his death in 2014 has two 3 yr old clones.
They have just announced this week that these two colts will be standing at stud this year, they had kept them hidden but they were actually borne by embryo transfer in 2012. The reported cost of each horse was E100,000
I am sure they will be hoping to make that back through stud fees and then some - I wonder if they will compete
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Post by kafee on Feb 15, 2015 8:37:53 GMT 1
That's interesting antares, I didn't know anyone had succeeded in cloning horses.
Not sure what to think about it. At present, the cost restricts cloning to 'valuable' animals, who hopefully are 'good' examples of their species, thus this will make little impact on the horse population as a whole. However, scroll forwards a decade or ten, and you could end up with all top competitions being decided between the clones of a few top quality horses or the progeny of those clones.
It will be interesting to follow the careers of these clones if they compete, and their progeny. I think some people will want to see the clones compete, before paying the, no doubt, high stud fees.
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Post by lizpurlo on Feb 16, 2015 22:40:47 GMT 1
Rather into unknown territory, isn't it - I'd be concerned about health issues. Weren't there problems with Dolly the cloned sheep? I think I'd want to see these two competing successfully and staying sound and healthy before spending megabucks on stud fees.
AI and embryo transfer are one thing, but cloning to me is just a step too far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 8:31:29 GMT 1
I *think* one of the problems with cloning is that as we age so does our DNA. So those 3 year olds will have DNA the age that Cruising would be if he were still alive. Some diseases are linked to age related changes in DNA and I think it's pretty uncharted territory as to whether the clones will be able to remain as healthy as the original horse they descended from.
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Post by janwilky on Feb 17, 2015 8:45:42 GMT 1
Rather into unknown territory, isn't it - I'd be concerned about health issues. Weren't there problems with Dolly the cloned sheep? I think I'd want to see these two competing successfully and staying sound and healthy before spending megabucks on stud fees. AI and embryo transfer are one thing, but cloning to me is just a step too far. I agree Liz. I took an Open University module in evolution last year which had a large element of molecular genetics in it, so I have some idea of the process involved - and it doesn't make me feel any more comfortable about cloning. 'Normal' reproduction using DNA replication is a beautiful, elegant process that's worked for a billion years or so. Nothing would ever have changed or evolved or have any of the wonderful diversity of individual and unique features without the tiny 'copying errors' that occur every time a new life is born. Why do humans think we can improve on nature by interfering with the uniqueness of individuals? I like to think I'm an open-minded scientist, but some things just are a step too far. It's maybe not really part of this debate, but I think that cloning animals is different from cloning and genetically modifying plants. Not that there isn't plenty to be concerned about there, but many plants naturally reproduce asexually by cloning themselves (think suckers, runners, asexual fertilisation in some species etc) and there is a plasticity about the genetic material of plants that isn't present in animals, apart from some very simple animal forms. Plants use asexual reproduction as a life strategy, higher animals - especially mammals and birds - do not. ETA Michelle - yes  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 15:02:43 GMT 1
Why do humans think we can improve on nature by interfering with the uniqueness of individuals? I suspect the people involved haven't even considered it in that context, more likely they're thinking of how much money they can earn from stud fees by having two more of the "same" horse. Breeding two different horses (i.e normally) requires them to prove themselves in competition. For these two youngsters Cruising has done the proving already if you see what I mean. |
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wills
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Post by wills on Feb 17, 2015 15:08:19 GMT 1
Doesn't sit well with me, wish humans would stop tinkering.
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Post by kristine on Feb 18, 2015 2:57:13 GMT 1
I feel about it the way I feel about the cluster of idiots over here trying to make a better cattledog by mixing random breeds. Wondering what it proves? Behind excellent examples of the breed is usually hundreds of years of selective breeding, education, ruthless culling, heartbreak, study and HARD WORK. Working toward an exceptional animal begins with striving for betterment, not standing genetically still. Health wise, its a big risk, but there are some examples of success over here I am thinking of... clones of exceptional performers like Royal Blue Boon (cutting), Scamper (barrel racing) and Airwolf (saddle bronc). The last two were geldings... and there were reasons they were gelded, I am sure... even though their later performance proved them outstanding in their field. Time would be better spent, in my opinion, of studying and concentrating on those horse's families. Even a cloned Scamper IS NOT Scamper. Guts, talent and experience can't be cloned. Royal Blue Boon... wow, what an exceptional horse... that one makes me waiver a little, lol. Scamper's winning run at the world championship in case you're bored! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARYlauTj2lE |
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Post by portiabuzz on Feb 18, 2015 23:27:04 GMT 1
I have to say I agree with wills.. makes me uneasy...
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Post by portiabuzz on Feb 18, 2015 23:29:13 GMT 1
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Post by bramblesmum on Feb 22, 2015 6:25:22 GMT 1
I saw an interview with hartwells owner both of these boys are starting their backing this summer both were late foals so will jump the year after as she doesnt support the 4yr old jumping classes (brings her up in my eyes as I feel it's a bit much for a bubba) she says she cloned due to Ireland being short of good sport horse stallions (not something I would know about) she had 12 mares impregnated and two foals born she admits she went out to get just one but was lucky that more held in the mares
The only thing I find a shame is if cloning becomes regular that search for the best you can breed would diminish as they would copy something already there so new talented bloodlines would not be discovered which would be a shame in my book
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Mar 3, 2015 14:21:37 GMT 1
Of coarse the first cloned equines were racing mules |
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Post by kafee on Mar 3, 2015 21:54:27 GMT 1
Of coarse the first cloned equines were racing mules Really!!!? How long ago was that, and what sort of results did they get with the clones? ps Hi, jinglejoys, long time no see............ |
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Post by portiabuzz on Mar 3, 2015 23:29:08 GMT 1
I didn't know that !
Sent from my SM-G800F using proboards
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