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Post by Katieleeown on Jan 22, 2015 13:37:08 GMT 1
Hi everyone! Long time no post! I'm hoping you can all help me out a bit with some advice. Amber and I have a bit of an issue out hacking. She can be very difficult to hack out alone and sometimes in company too. She is rather spooky - she's always been this way but had started spooking a little dangerously - she spooks at something and does a 180 spin and try's to run off - mostly only a short distance but is quite worrying! I am quite nervous now and really do not hack out alone and have recently been putting off hacking even with someone else now.  Basically WE meet our friend in the next village which is about 1.5 miles away. we have to go up hill, past a donkey on quite a narrow road. Traffic is good really they do slow down nicely most of the time. If we see something that she spooks at she just's gets soooooooooo worked up and her heart rate sky rockets and she'll jig jog and start pulling etc. She just wants to power off and away... Once we get to our friends she calms down eventually but until they are in sight she won't relax. I got off one time when we got there as A wasn't ready and i thought she'd settle but no still high alert frigidity wouldn't have a nibble of grass either. If we split up to go separate ways home she will jig jog, pull reins and go as fast i will let her home, like her life depends on it. I'm certain if i let go of the reins she's bolt home quick as poss. This is not my idea of a nice hack and i dare say she is not happy about something. She's recently had the physio out who said she looked better than she ever had and found no sore spots as at all. Vet / dentist is due to come out soon as well. She is 24, 3/4 tb chestnut in the pic below! She has PPID, lively cheeky mare who definitely still enjoys life - she does not seem ready to retire ridden work but as we have no facilities hacking is our only option for exercise and this seems to make both of us unhappy at the moment! She had bone flap surgery in Nov 2012 which meant we did not do anything much in 2013 whilst her face was healing etc. Previous to the surgery in 2012 she had anothertrip to the vet to have a foley catherter put in to her sinus to try and clear the sinus infection Which it didn't so she had the surgery. Which seems to have helped. i had to syringe antibiotics daily and bute etc which she did not like and is quite syringe shy now, she came back from vets worse than she went with syringes. Ever since then she has been like this when hacking. Should I just give up and let her be retired now or persevere with her and try and suss out whats bothering her (and me) so much that she needs to race home. any helpful advice or tips or solutions will help thanks  |
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Post by janwilky on Jan 24, 2015 15:18:54 GMT 1
Hi Katie I'm sure others will have better advice than me but as no one else has replied yet.... I think I'd be thinking of going back to groundwork and rebuilding confidence in both of you, particularly as you've noted her behaviour has changed for the worse since all the vet treatment she had to have. Perhaps it's affected her confidence a bit, and undermined her trust in you maybe as you had to do things she didn't like in order to treat her? I know you don't have great facilities in the winter (same here!) but I find even doing a few minutes of groundwork on the yard or down the farm track can make a huge difference. Could you start by doing some groundwork where you're both comfortable and relaxed and then perhaps think of graduating to leading her out on in-hand hacks? What's she like if you lead her rather than ride? If she's better, it would be a good place to start and if she isn't it's something you can work on! I've found that getting leading skills 200% is never time wasted, and I've learned to really value our walking hacks - in fact it's pretty much all I do with Lucas at the moment but I suspect one day I'll get fed up of walking and just quietly hop aboard. Sarah Weston does in-hand hacking with the handler walking next to the saddle area - I've been doing that with Lucas, using a pair of rope reins, and I'm finding it a very valuable exercise. Do you remember us discussing the 'red, amber and green zones' idea (it might have been over on Phoenix)? It was an RA who I had help us a few years ago who gave me the idea and I found it very helpful. Lucas was pretty tricky to handle at the time, and said we should do most of our groundwork in the 'green' zone, which is where we both feel comfortable and I know I can handle him without risking him losing the plot. Initially that was literally just the yard and a short section of the farm track. Once we were comfortable doing some basic exercises in the green zone we would move on to do those same exercises in the 'amber' zone, which initially might be just a few yards further down the track and then come back into the 'green' again. The idea was to NEVER go into the red zone because that was where he didn't feel safe and we wouldn't be able to do any constructive work there. However, by consistently working in the amber zone and turning it green the red zones would eventually become amber and - in time - green. I've moved on a lot with him since then but I still bear that advice in mind, and if I'm going to do anything new with him I always think of doing it in the 'green' zone (which has now expanded to include the whole farm track, the lane, the next farm track up the valley and the track through the woods!). I'm ready to expand the amber zone with him now and go further afield, but I'll make sure I do it on a 'green' day when he's calm, the weather is good etc etc. I've also taken to doing in-hand hacks with Bambi, who is pretty good ridden but somehow walking with her on the ground develops our mutual trust in a deeper way than ridden work alone. So these days I tend to hack in company and do my solo hacking on the ground. The neighbours think I'm nuts taking my perfectly rideable horse for walks but I don't care, we both enjoy it and get a lot out of it. And I don't have to clean her up for it  |
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Post by portiabuzz on Jan 24, 2015 15:49:30 GMT 1
Great idea Jan I love the traffic light idea of training  Sent from my SM-G800F using proboards |
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Post by Katieleeown on Jan 26, 2015 13:06:48 GMT 1
Hi Katie I'm sure others will have better advice than me but as no one else has replied yet.... I think I'd be thinking of going back to groundwork and rebuilding confidence in both of you, particularly as you've noted her behaviour has changed for the worse since all the vet treatment she had to have. Perhaps it's affected her confidence a bit, and undermined her trust in you maybe as you had to do things she didn't like in order to treat her? I know you don't have great facilities in the winter (same here!) but I find even doing a few minutes of groundwork on the yard or down the farm track can make a huge difference. Could you start by doing some groundwork where you're both comfortable and relaxed and then perhaps think of graduating to leading her out on in-hand hacks? What's she like if you lead her rather than ride? If she's better, it would be a good place to start and if she isn't it's something you can work on! I've found that getting leading skills 200% is never time wasted, and I've learned to really value our walking hacks - in fact it's pretty much all I do with Lucas at the moment but I suspect one day I'll get fed up of walking and just quietly hop aboard. Sarah Weston does in-hand hacking with the handler walking next to the saddle area - I've been doing that with Lucas, using a pair of rope reins, and I'm finding it a very valuable exercise. Do you remember us discussing the 'red, amber and green zones' idea (it might have been over on Phoenix)? It was an RA who I had help us a few years ago who gave me the idea and I found it very helpful. Lucas was pretty tricky to handle at the time, and said we should do most of our groundwork in the 'green' zone, which is where we both feel comfortable and I know I can handle him without risking him losing the plot. Initially that was literally just the yard and a short section of the farm track. Once we were comfortable doing some basic exercises in the green zone we would move on to do those same exercises in the 'amber' zone, which initially might be just a few yards further down the track and then come back into the 'green' again. The idea was to NEVER go into the red zone because that was where he didn't feel safe and we wouldn't be able to do any constructive work there. However, by consistently working in the amber zone and turning it green the red zones would eventually become amber and - in time - green. I've moved on a lot with him since then but I still bear that advice in mind, and if I'm going to do anything new with him I always think of doing it in the 'green' zone (which has now expanded to include the whole farm track, the lane, the next farm track up the valley and the track through the woods!). I'm ready to expand the amber zone with him now and go further afield, but I'll make sure I do it on a 'green' day when he's calm, the weather is good etc etc. I've also taken to doing in-hand hacks with Bambi, who is pretty good ridden but somehow walking with her on the ground develops our mutual trust in a deeper way than ridden work alone. So these days I tend to hack in company and do my solo hacking on the ground. The neighbours think I'm nuts taking my perfectly rideable horse for walks but I don't care, we both enjoy it and get a lot out of it. And I don't have to clean her up for it Hi Jan, Thank you for replying! (an portiabuzz too!) I do recall the discussion of the red amber green zones! doh - and had forgotten them too! I seem to remember when we moved to moulton (where we are now) all we did for the first 2-3 months was in hand hack to get the lay of the land! doh! And it did help at the time as i remember we had some lovely chilled solo Hacks.. in fact I have a Video I took whilst riding on the way home loose reign no rushing etc! I will have a good think about the 'zones' for her Certainly the now demolished school was a'green' zone! I think even the drive way at the yard freaks her out as she always gets snorty and bounding heart beat there. We certainly have lots to do! I feel as though I am running out of time with her (silly me) as she's 24, but am trying to remember that physio said she looked and felt the best she ever had for her and to make the most of what ever time we have anyway! I get funny looks from the others at the yard - but hey at least I'm doing something with my two rather than nothing like them!!! Must remember to breathe..... incidentally I just got Kelly's book perfect manners so will put that to good use! |
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Post by Lulu on Jan 26, 2015 13:47:02 GMT 1
Has her eyesight changed yet ? If I'm right in thinking, Cushing horses can have problems with eyes, with corneal sensitivity.
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Post by janwilky on Jan 26, 2015 14:02:18 GMT 1
Lol Katie . Coco is about 24 too and he seems to get younger by the year - we've just started taking him out for in-hand hacks too because he was feeling a bit left out (he LOVES to do stuff) and he's been, ahem, a little fresh on a couple of occasions. And as for Bambi, she's rising 19 this year and despite only having little legs none of our hacking buddies can keep up with us. Amber's obviously got plenty of life in her yet too, so I'm sure your physio is right to say just make the most of the time you have. We never know how long any of us have do we, and even a young horse can develop all manner of problems so we just have to make the most of the moment. Interesting thought about the eyesight, I hadn't heard that about PPID affecting eyes. |
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Post by Lulu on Jan 26, 2015 18:54:53 GMT 1
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Post by janwilky on Jan 26, 2015 20:23:58 GMT 1
Thanks Lulu, that's interesting.
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Post by Katieleeown on Jan 27, 2015 9:09:32 GMT 1
thanks for the reply's again I had her eyes checked last year as i thought it might be something to do with the spookieness.. Vet said he couldn't see anything much wrong with them for her age..... Interesting article thanks Lulu! I to had never heard of this. I will get the vet to check her eyes again when he's out to do her teeth! Thanks |
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Post by portiabuzz on Jan 27, 2015 21:48:27 GMT 1
Good luck with her xx
Sent from my SM-G800F using proboards
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Post by nich on Jan 27, 2015 23:23:36 GMT 1
My Autumn got spookier as she aged, she developed Cushings, I felt it was connected....
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Post by Katieleeown on Jan 30, 2015 17:54:47 GMT 1
thanks for the input Nich def going to get the vet to check her eyes! One thing which has come to mind...... lst time o got off whilst on a hack because Miss Amber was being a bit naughty on the way home ( i was fed up of being bounced about). The others at the yard saw me walking her back and commeneted when we got back i should never get off on a hack and lead back as it's very dangerous - i should stay on her and hang on for dear life as i'll be safer up there.............. now i'm not stupid and value my life and Amber's but really I'm of the thinking if I feel tired or unsafe - get off (if she's jig jogging etc being silly). Have i missed something or can anyone else understand their meaning of this? I personally feel more comfortable leading her anyway.. i'd have preferred a duaully on her but i didn't have it at the time so never mind. Am I missing their point? |
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Post by janwilky on Jan 30, 2015 23:48:27 GMT 1
Personally I have good reason to think there's no such thing as "safer up there" - if my horse is being a twit, I get off!! Much better than being catapulted into an air ambulance. I think there's a perception in 'traditional' British horsey circles that if you get off and lead when a horse is being difficult or having problems then you're admitting defeat and the horse is 'winning' and will get the idea that it can do more of the same to get you off. I'm not the most experienced horse person around, but I'm not convinced horses think like that. It seems to me that (1) I feel a lot safer on the ground if my horse is being silly, therefore I'll be more confident and more able to handle the situation, and (2) by doing something positive like getting off and leading I'm showing my horse that I can be a good leader exactly when he/she needs one, and I think this gives them confidence. That's my experience anyway, and so far I've never made a problem worse by jumping off and walking - but I have made it worse by staying on when I'm scared or my horse is nuts. Bambi went through a really nappy stage after she was ill last winter, and when I started riding her again she kept stopping and running backwards, even when we were hacking out in company sometimes! I decided just to get off and lead her whenever she got stuck, and within a few weeks she was back to normal. She still hesitates occasionally if we do a new route, so now I jump off without even thinking about it and simply show her that it's OK and I'll look after her, until I feel she's OK with this crazy new idea of mine at which point I hop back on again. Yep, I know she's only 14.1 and Amber's a big girl - there are advantages to pony squishing I've had a few chuckles about a good friend of mine recently. We hack out together most weekends, she has a lovely big cob who is very reliable. The first time I got off and led Bambi when we were out together Julie was horrified and said it was a really unsafe thing to do. I'd got off because we were riding on a steep clay bridleway and it was horribly wet and slippery and both horses were sliding all over the place. I preferred to get off and lead, and Bambi was much happier without my weight on her back. Julie was worried that she'd slip and fall on me, and also reckoned it was never OK to get off and lead on a hack, but I just made sure I was uphill of her - and I'd rather have to dodge out of the way of a slipping horse than worry about ending up underneath her if she fell with me (it happened once, luckily gravity rolled me clear). It helps to be wearing boots with decent grippy soles at this point too  Anyway, 10 minutes later and Julie was walking too, after Duke nearly went down with her. Last week she went out for a ride with another 'trad' friend and they got lost and ended up being out for 4.5 hours on fairly unfit horses. Julie texted me later to say she'd got off and walked for a couple of miles to give Duke a break, much to her friend's horror! She's moving house soon, and has asked me what I think of the idea of walking her retired horse the 4 or 5 miles to their new place as he doesn't like travelling in a trailer... I suspect I'll be roped in to help (wish me luck, he's a Percheron and he ain't good to lead - but he doesn't know that I learned my leading skills with Lucas!!). Mind out though, walking with your horse can be addictive! I love it, I find it very companionable and it stops me from stiffening up and getting too cold in the winter too. |
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Post by Katieleeown on Feb 3, 2015 15:33:12 GMT 1
That makes total sense to me Jan! The only thing I struggle with is getting back on!!!! Generally I we don't have a problem with going forwards - unless we are going past Murphy the donkey's paddock! I love taking Tilly for walks... she needs to get out and about more!! The ladies at the yard are definitely of the 'traditional' horse person school! Last time we went out i walked the last 3/4 mile home with Amber to make sure she walked and we arrived back calmer than when we parted company with out hacking buddies! hopefully the others from the yard will be hacking out a bit more this year! one was having a baby and the other was working most weekends and rode in the day time! |
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