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Post by ruthp on Nov 19, 2014 10:55:50 GMT 1
There are a lot of different types of small holed nets, and I've tried most of them! And my conclusions are
1. Different nets suit different horses (my two hated Trickle nets, and got really frustrated with them, but are quite content with softer, similarly restrictive, alternatives. )
2. The poll / neck issue must depend to a certain extent on how / where you hang the nets. If they are at head height, then the are going to be grazing in an unnatural position which could cause problems. I hang mine on pulleys in the centre of a shelter, so the the bottom of the net is only just above the floor. The girls trap the net against their chest and front legs, and pull the hay out from the bottom in a similar action to normal grazing. No neck problems so far. (They are barefoot, so no danger of getting a shoe caught with the nets so low).
3. Without restrictive nets my two good doers would go for long hours without any any hay not something I'm happy with, as Bali had ulcers when I got her - or gain enormous amounts of weight. With restrictive nets they have something to chew on all the time, but are not gaining weight.
4. I no longer waste any hay. Last year (first winter with this system) I used 30% less hay than previously. Ok, it was a mild winter, but it was very wet, so I had them on hay for weeks at a time.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 19, 2014 14:48:48 GMT 1
Which nets are you currently using Ruthp? I love the idea of suspending them on pulleys, must remember that! I've recently bought three Elico continental haynets and they are working quite well so far, touch wood. They have 3cm holes but the material is soft and flexible. I've suspended them just above ground level using carabiners attached to rings. Touch wood, I think they will last a lot longer than the Trickle nets because Mr Net Destroyer isn't frustrated by them so isn't going for them with bared teeth . Much cheaper than Tricklenets too. The only downside is the top closure is two cord ties which are a bit fiddly and I keep expecting them to get them open and break in through the top of the net, but they haven't done so far. I'm planning to get some soft cord and thread it through the top of the nets, it would be just as quick to do and more secure. The other advantage is that they are really big, it says on the blurb that they will hold 15 kilos - I haven't tried that but they don't even look nearly full with 6 kilos in so I reckon they might. They're much easier to fill than normal nets too because of the wide top opening. Hopefully they will last me the winter at least I saw some really similar, possibly identical, nets elsewhere at more than double the cost. This was the best price I could find: www.discount-equestrian.co.uk/elico-continental-style-haynet.html
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Post by lizpurlo on Nov 19, 2014 15:10:13 GMT 1
Ooh, I like the look of these, Jan. My problem here is that the big bale hay I'm feeding now is so loose that I can't get enough weight in a standard size haynet to last all night, and no matter how tightly I fill them, they're invariably empty by 10pm. So these look very tempting, might be the answer.
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Post by janwilky on Nov 19, 2014 16:28:33 GMT 1
It's high time we had a catch-up Liz, so if you fancy coming over to have a look at them and a bite of lunch just let me know. I'm sure Lucas would love to see the Secretary of the Monstercob Fan Club
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Post by ruthp on Nov 19, 2014 18:15:09 GMT 1
I use the Shires Greedy Eater nets inside Shires Haylege nets. I use the big ones, and I take the string out of both and thread them together which makes the double bag much easier to use. I tried Elim a nets, which were ok but not very robust, and again you really needed two together to really slow them down.
The Shires nets come in two sizes, and I use the big ones which are much easier to fill, although I don't use anything like their capacity.
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Post by penny70 on Nov 19, 2014 21:22:09 GMT 1
I had no choice when my ponies were stabled but to use doubled up small holed haynets as they would seem to literally suck hay in if fed loose or out of large holed haynets. I felt I got over the problem of possible damage to their necks by making the nets into pillows which I then just threw into the stable. Neither pony wore shoes, and both soon learned to stand on a corner of the hay pillow in order to pull hay out. Not perfect I know, as they still had to twist slightly, but better that their hay allowance lasted all day than they ate all the hay in an hour and stood starving for the rest of the time... And I too agree that the difference in the amount consumed in the study is a hugely significant amount...
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Post by jen1 on Nov 20, 2014 13:33:58 GMT 1
not keen on any net, so no benefits really for me,
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Post by troop on Nov 20, 2014 20:11:52 GMT 1
I alternate between nets and bales. Haylage in nets and hay as a bale or loose on floor. Makes a god darn mess though.
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Post by Pony-Nutt on Nov 20, 2014 23:15:16 GMT 1
I dont like them because they make the horse yank at the haynet, usually in an upward motion which is very bad for the neck and back. As the head goes up the underside of the neck gets a work out and the back is hollowed. Just what you dont want.
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Post by sarahbing on Nov 22, 2014 1:41:12 GMT 1
How can they say 30% less is insignificant? Basically it's a statistical test to prove whether the variation is due to randomness, or is significant. The smaller the trial, the less likely it is to show statistical significance. Horses eat at different rates and, therefore, giving just a few horses different size nets and showing that they eat at different rates, proves nothing. That said, it doesn't prove the opposite either! To pass the statistical test, a larger study would be needed that shows more horses eat faster from larger nets, or not ( i.e. prove or disprove the original hypothesis) Hope that makes sense
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Post by janwilky on Nov 22, 2014 9:01:07 GMT 1
It makes perfect sense from a scientific perspective but is laughable from a horse owner's! You only have to watch a horse eating for 20 minutes to know with some assurance whether a particular type of net is slowing it down or not. I've done plenty of fretting as to how to achieve the nirvana of slower eating without damage to necks etc but I never needed to do a statistical test to find out which options were working for us . 30% less hay = slimmer horse + less time with empty tummy + less wastage = no brainer for me. I've had all sorts of body issues to contend with, but so far (touch wood) none of them have been caused by haynets. I don't like them, but some of us don't have a realistic alternative and horse owning is full of compromises.
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Post by sarahbing on Nov 25, 2014 8:35:07 GMT 1
Yes, I don't use them either Janwilky! I feed from the floor but I do worry about them running out overnight. I do late hays around 10 and just tweak this until they have a little left in the morning at turnout. It is a compromise as you say, but as Garry says in the OP, I can see no advantage in using small holed hay nets, or indeed any hay net unless for travelling. From observation it just makes them frustrated and pull and tug the net, potentially ( as has been said) causing physical damage to themselves. A nutritionist friend of mine did suggest hiding large swedes around the stable for them to nibble on, and I do use the compressed blocks of grass to ensure they are not without something low calorie to nibble throughout the night. In the filed I use crates to try and minimise wastage.
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Post by Sophie on Nov 29, 2014 15:28:20 GMT 1
It makes perfect sense from a scientific perspective but is laughable from a horse owner's! You only have to watch a horse eating for 20 minutes to know with some assurance whether a particular type of net is slowing it down or not. I've done plenty of fretting as to how to achieve the nirvana of slower eating without damage to necks etc but I never needed to do a statistical test to find out which options were working for us . 30% less hay = slimmer horse + less time with empty tummy + less wastage = no brainer for me. I've had all sorts of body issues to contend with, but so far (touch wood) none of them have been caused by haynets. I don't like them, but some of us don't have a realistic alternative and horse owning is full of compromises. Ditto this. I'd sincerely love to be able to feed from the floor, but with a very good doer who has had laminitis this year, but I've also seen crib if he has no access to forage when stabled - you have to be realistic. For me, using small holes haynets is the more preferable option - my horse is regularly seen by a chiropractor & physiotherapist, so any tightness in the neck or poll is picked up on and treated accordingly ( although this is minimal anyway). He also has his teeth regularly done by an EDT, to compensate for small holes haynets too. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to feed from the floor & always be around to top up hay - but working full time and being on a yard that does have a closing time, it simply isn't practical. Even if weight control wasn't an issue. I'm envious of those that can keep their horses in that way though!
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