Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
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Post by Caroline on Oct 23, 2014 21:48:02 GMT 1
I have been wondering about this. I grew up riding horses with bitted bridles and, as a youngster, it didn't occur to question it. It was just what was done.
When I first got TigerLily and Zeebee, I was surrounded by gypsy horse people who all rode bitless and were passionate about it being preferable. I resolved that I would never put anything in TigerLily's mouth as it seemed kinder and gentler not to. But if I am honest, I wonder if it would have occured to me to question the use of bits if I hadn't met people who persuaded me otherwise and opened my eyes to the possibility that there was another way.
That still leaves me wondering why people generally do use bits though.
I have only done a very little riding with TigerLily so far, and not a lot of steering, but so far I would say that I wouldn't know I was riding in a plain headcollar and not a bitted bridle if I didn't already know. It feels the same really. Do others find this? How far does it go?
Is the bit normally there to control with pressure/pain if the horse becomes unco-operative or bolts? Does a bit make a difference in those situations?
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Post by alonerawnut on Oct 24, 2014 4:46:10 GMT 1
I've ridden both bitted and bitless (in the dually). I plan to train my own youngster one day and I would probably ride with a bit (unless there were teeth issues / similar which prevented it). For me, there are two main reasons:
Subtlety and working correctly: I've seen people achieve amazing things with very gentle use of a bit. Encouraging a horse to carry themselves properly with a consistent , elastic contact and asking for transitions / changes of direction with the tiniest vibration of the rein is something I'd strive to achieve. You could argue that you could train the horse to take a contact with the pressure over their nose rather than via their mouth & jaw, but I haven't seen that done as successfully. I think the communication you have with a bit can be much more subtle than with a bitless bridle.
Safety: I think in an emergency situation, you do have more control when riding with a bit rather than bitless. For sure, when you're working from the ground you can be very effective with a long line on the dually if a horse goes to take off, but I think in the saddle you do need something that is able to exert a more concentrated force, when it's absolutely necessary. My position is that if I've taken my horse out of a safe place (i.e. out of the field, onto the road / bridleways) and if something was to spook them, I have to be in the best position to stop them bolting onto a busy road / similar. I think you have a better chance of doing that if you're riding with a securely-fitting saddle, stirrups and a bitted bridle. I've seen a lot of people proudly announcing that they ride bareback & bitless, which would be completely fine if they were in a safe, enclosed place where no harm could come to their horse if they bolted, but I think that situation is very rare.
As many people have said before, the tools are only as good / bad as the person using them. I think people can be harsh and cause pain as easily with a bitless bridle as with a bitted one. You just have to do as much as you can to use your tack correctly and gently, introducing it and using it in a way that makes sense to your horse.
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Post by jennyb on Oct 24, 2014 7:36:42 GMT 1
Why NOT ride with a bit? If the rider's seat and hands are good and the bit can be used with tact and sensitivity, whyever not use a bit? You get far, far more subtle and accurate communication. If you feel that riding in a headcollar is the same as with a bit, might I respectfully suggest that you are not riding with a contact? A contact is a light connection with the horses mouth through the reins so that subtle communication and suggestion is possible.
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Post by janwilky on Oct 24, 2014 12:07:39 GMT 1
When I got Bambi she'd been ridden in a sidepull for a year or two since coming back to her previous owner from a loan home where her mouth had been "ruined" (their description) by rough, unsympathetic hands. I rode her bitless for the first few months but I found I had a few issues with it: (1) I couldn't reliably stop or slow down when it was absolutely necessary - she once wiped me off on a low branch because she wouldn't stop; (2) her 'default' is to hollow and rush and I couldn't change this while riding bitless: it was really not good for either her body or her mind and it made her spectacularly uncomfortable to ride; and (3) there was no subtlety; we're not dressage divas but I found I was having to 'shout' to be heard when her adrenaline was up or she was worried.
I started to ride with a bit and to begin with it didn't get a lot better, but then she had two weeks of intensive training during which we found a bit that worked for her and she had some sensitive schooling in how to respond to the aids. The result was a pony I can ride anywhere, at any time - fun rides, galloping with friends, cantering up roadside verges (we have very quiet lanes round here) - and I know I can stop, slow down, change direction or duck under low branches in safety. I only have to lightly squeeze my fingers to get a response, it's a polite and friendly conversation rather than a shouting-and-hauling match!
I don't rule out going back to riding bitless in certain situations though, now that we are communicating better with one another.
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Post by antares on Oct 24, 2014 12:34:26 GMT 1
alonerawnut, jenny & jan have pretty much covered it!
When I backed Antares I used a dually but that was more by accident than anything - I was practising leaning over and then all of a sudden I was on board, it just so happened he was in a dually and not a bridle. From time to time I have tinkered with riding with a dually rather than bridle but I am also of the thought that the dually is a bit of a blunt instrument whereas there is more feel when using a bit.
I'm no expert though - haven't tried any other types of bitless so can't comment on them but my horse doesn't have any issues with his mouth and is learning well about contact through the bit so if it aint broke....
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Post by Catrin on Oct 24, 2014 15:42:49 GMT 1
I am not skilled enough to teach my horse self–carriage from the ground, so I have to do it on his back. I need a bit so I can do this. "Dressage is the art of teaching the horse to carry you. Riding is the art of learning to be a good load to carry." - Richard Weiss
I can learn to be a good load to carry in lessons and on an electronic horse. I have to have a way to teach my horse to carry me. Once he's learned that, I can throw away the bit and the bridle. With Grayson's giraffe, we had to teach him to lower his head: a bitted bridle helped him learn it in one lesson. I had to school him with it for quite a while as the learned behaviour crept back in, and he also had to develop correct muscles and rid himself of the ones that were under his neck and that hollowed his back. It took a few months, but after that, whenever I hacked him in a Dually, he lowered his head to use his body correctly going uphill, instead of sticking his chin in and blocking his windpipe.
I always start a horse, or ride a green horse in a Dually, but once they can stop and start with no rein contact and back up with the first rein cue, I move them on to groundwork in a bridle with a bit and dropped noseband.
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Post by mags on Oct 24, 2014 17:08:19 GMT 1
I agree with much of the above. I also find it interesting that the majority of examples of very accomplished rider/horse pairs riding bitless/bridleless/bareback etc. that you come across on e.g. youtube are people who first trained their horses with conventional tack (bitted, with saddle), and as their communication became more and more refined, they could eventually leave the tack off with quite spectacular results. I can't remember any examples of horses trained to a similar level with minimalistic tack from the start.
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Post by siinead on Oct 24, 2014 21:37:33 GMT 1
Bits help with a sense of security and actually alot dont even question it. I personally love just throwing my fluffy headcollar on my mare and strolling around the field shes so relaxed bitless but however as shes also high strung what would i do if she decided to lose it (to be honest a bit doesnt help her bursts of energy) and alot of horses just dont like bits so theres a constant fight. I would say people use bits because of the 'what if' what if they bucked,what if they bolted. Different horses different methods, it isnt the bit that does the damage its the stiff hands holding the reins. I guess its just expected to have a bit in and a saddle and necessary for alot of competitions. But another point to remember is that if you sold your horse on and its never known a bit and the buyer bitted and saddled it then it could cause a problem and they may see a stubborn horse and get rid of it. However going bitless cant be all that good just like riding with a bit, incorrect equipment or treatment can really hurt a horse because you might not feel you have as much control you may become heavier in the hands and more nervous so theres advantages and disadvantages. Honestly id love to go bitless!
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Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
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Post by Caroline on Oct 25, 2014 1:47:05 GMT 1
Thank you for all the input. I watched this tonight, which was interesting: epona.tv/bitless-bridle-pros-and-consWhilst I would rather ride bitless than bitted, I don't even have a choice with TigerLily. She has wolf teeth (ironic for a Tiger! ), so wouldn't be able to have a bit anyway. Apparently many people get wolf teeth removed to facilitate a bit, but I couldn't do that! So I think I need to thoroughly understand the differences involved in bitless riding. All the above comments have been helpful, thank you.
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Post by portiabuzz on Oct 25, 2014 12:28:35 GMT 1
Good for you Caroline !
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Post by lizpurlo on Oct 25, 2014 23:33:12 GMT 1
I totally agree with what the others have said. I love the sensitivity and the subtlety of riding with a bit (assuming it's a bit and bridle which the horse is happy and comfortable with) - to me, riding bitless feels like trying to play a piano when I'm wearing woolly gloves!
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Post by antares on Oct 26, 2014 10:57:10 GMT 1
Whilst I would rather ride bitless than bitted, I don't even have a choice with TigerLily. She has wolf teeth (ironic for a Tiger! ), so wouldn't be able to have a bit anyway. Apparently many people get wolf teeth removed to facilitate a bit, but I couldn't do that! . Some horses get along fine being ridden with bits and still having wolf teeth it is not always necessary to remove them, it depends where they are situated.
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Post by ruthp on Oct 27, 2014 8:52:11 GMT 1
I rode my pony and my last horse in a Dr Cook bitless, but when I got Bali she absolutely HATED it. I was really surprised, but she was very clear about it. So I tried various bits, and she decided that her preference was a Mylor Combination. So I ride in a bit because my horse prefers it.
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Post by Fussymare on Oct 29, 2014 21:36:48 GMT 1
My friend rides bitless. I like the idea, but my mare has bolted badly with me once - and that is enough to make me worry that I wouldn't be able to stop her in a bitless bridle! I know it's only once in 7 years, but I'm in my fifties and don't want to see how well I bounce these days, so I always hack her in a french link continental gag which guarantees me brakes, and school in a Myler. I know there are several types of bitless but I don't like the marks the noseband leaves on my friend's horse's nose after she rides - just a personal opinion, but there has obviously been some sort of pressure to leave such a sweaty, obvious mark.
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Post by holi on Nov 2, 2014 9:10:21 GMT 1
My mare had been ridden in both before I got her but I think both badly! Seems she went bitless when the bit had cut her (horrible high placed happy mouth with biscuits) and that's when they changed her over going back to bit when mouth had healed. Irony is problem was damaged back legs causing tension in poll and mouth. Been an uphill struggle to accept anything so nothing's better as such if not done correctly!
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