Feeding for energy - advice please

[Fussymare]

I've got a 21 yr old Welsh X mare who has a lovely, calm, laid back nature, but I've noticed this summer that she is lacking in energy compared to previous years. I'm beginning to wonder whether it has anything to do with changing her feed earlier this year? She's fairly fit as we do 15 mile pleasure rides at least once a month, and she's hacked/schooled 4 or 5 times a week.

For years I've had her on Alfa-A with a vitamin supplement, but earlier this year swapped to a more natural grass chop (Top Chop Grass) as I'd read about alfalfa being dessicated chemically. I've also put her on Top Spec Senior balancer which has glucosamine added. She's also on half a mug of micronised linseed daily - started feeding this as had her on turmeric for a while instead of glucosamine, and now she's on it just to use up the sack basically. (Stopped turmeric as really didn't notice any improvement after 6 months of using.)

I'm certain it's nothing physical, as she works well during lessons, and finds some energy if she feels stubble beneath her hooves! She also looks very well and seems fine in herself. But generally she's less forward than she has been in previous years, and this evening I wondered if it could have anything to do with different feed?

She's currently fed once a day, and lives out 24/7 although there's not a huge amount of grass. We're about to start supplementing with hay overnight, although I'm not sure that will make a difference as she's been out on fairly decent grass all summer.

There is so much conflicting advice out there when it comes to feed, and I'm loathe to keep chopping and changing - but if I could find something that would restore her energy levels I would be happy!

[Deleted]

If she's maintaining condition then she's getting enough calories so if you feed her more she'll put on weight.

If you felt she was better on Alfa-A then put her back on it, surely your horse should be your ultimate guide, not what someone else says about the feed. I've fed Alfa-A for years and found it a very good reliable feed.

At 21 if she were showing any other signs of ill health (more prone to infections, lethargy, becoming ribby but retaining fat pads, becoming footy etc) I would consider getting her tested for cushings but if she's otherwise well and fine I'd just put her back on the feed she was thriving on and see if she returns to her former self.

[specialized]

I agree if she is in good physical condition then adding feed is only likely to add weight. Alfalfa often fizzes horses up a bit so taking her off it could have the opposite effect which you are noticing. 21yo is a good age and she is well into veteran, so perhaps she is just naturally slowing down a bit.

[Fussymare]

Thanks for the replies - I wasn't asking about adding feed, but about changing. I too had fed Alfa-A for years, but having read up on the chemical process used to dry it, I'm really not happy to feed it any more. She was on Lo-Cal balancer previously. We did a 15 mile ride on Sunday, and although she started off a bit lethargically, she soon perked up so I don't think it's physical or age. When we got to a canter stretch with some XC jumps along the side she positively grew a couple of hands and was very forward going bless her!

[mags]

You could try some alfalfa pellets (e.g. from Dengie) instead of the Alfa-A chaff. As far as I am aware, the alfalfa pellets have nothing added and are merely dried and pressed. Other than by going back to your old feed, I'm not sure how you'd be able to tell if the lack of energy is feed-related.

[marychick]

you could phone a feed company and ask about target feeding to make sure you're feeding at the optimal time for energy release when you ride (depending on what you're feeding) ... I've never tried this so don't know enough about it but have heard it recommended before and I guess it doesn't hurt to try.

[apache]

You could find she's just a bit stiff when she starts out, might be worth getting a physio to check her out.

[marychick]

would definitely agree with the above. My mare always takes some warming up these days but once she gets going she's absolutely fine and that still doesn't mean that when her adrenaline is up she doesn't think she's as fit as a 3 year old again. I expect a bit of creakiness at her age but there are still some situations where she gets excited enough to ignore that and will come out full of life so could explain what's happening with your mare?

[Fussymare]

Thanks Marychick. I hadn't heard about that, so it is definitely interesting to follow that up. It's not a stiffness - she occasionally gets a clicky hock, and I can feel the difference when she is slightly stiff. I am very careful to warm her up properly - we always walk for at least 20 minutes before starting any trot work. She has regular checks with a McTimoney practitioner and if it was stiffness then my instructor would pick up on this at the beginning of a lesson. I am very careful to warm her up, and also the type and amount of work we do on various surfaces. Once she does perk up out on a ride, this continues, so I don't think it's a case of the adrenalin getting her blood up. She's very fit, and we often hack for 3 or 4 hours from home at a weekend, apart from doing a bit of dressage, Trec and pleasure rides. It's hard to put my finger on - definitely a lethargic feeling generally rather than something specific about her movement. I am going to hack out with another horse from our field and see if that makes a difference, because she is turned out with another laid back chap and I think sometimes they feed off each other's lethargy! When she goes out and about with another gelding she seems to be in a completely different mindset for the whole ride - and she is the same when I hack her on her own! So perhaps it is attitude rather than feed related? Or linked to her seasons, but I need to note that to be sure.

[janwilky]

Just wondering, at her age, if it might be worth testing for PPID? The test is free at the moment. Lethargy can be one of the symptoms, and in the early stages the signs can be subtle. My mare (18) was diagnosed with borderline PPID last autumn, her main symptom was a sudden onset of lethargy in late summer: much worse than your mare, Bambi virtually ground to a halt and started napping before she became more obviously unwell. She picked up on half a tablet of Prascend a day, and in fact she's off medication now and doing fine (I don't quite understand why but there's a lot we don't know about PPID yet). We are in the seasonal rise at the moment, so the hormone levels are reaching their peak - some horses in the early stages may just need Prascend during late summer and autumn and are fine the rest of the year.

Otherwise, what about a handful of sprouted oats in her feed? Less sugar/heating than dry oats, I know a few people who use them very successfully. I use Coolstance Copra for my two older ones, they do very well on it and my mare is now fit too - working at a similar level to yours (who sounds like she has a lovely life!).

[marychick]

wow sounds like she's very fit especiually for her age!

[janwilky]

I was just thinking about what you said re her being better hacking out with a different horse or on her own and you were wondering if her laid-back field companion could be part of it. Funnily enough, I was wondering about that with Bambi recently. Most of our hacking is out alone, when she's energetic and forward-going and loves a good, fast canter but is laid-back and easy too. At weekends we usually hack with two different sets of people. We do long, fast rides and fun rides with a lovely couple who have Criollos and when we go out with them Bambi clicks into a different gear: she's done endurance in the past and she goes into endurance mode, the adrenaline kicks in and we're off! She's very well behaved but it's definitely a case of going as fast as I'll let her, and preferably in front whenever she can wangle it.

The other friend I hack out with has a big heavy cob, he isn't as fit as Bambi at the moment but he likes to go in front. Bambi goes into snail mode with him and slouches along behind, refuses to walk alongside him and won't go in front. I tried putting her in front last week and the little madam napped, totally refused to move forward and I was resorting to pony club kicks - I don't normally have to use any leg at all on her, I just think forward and she goes! I took her out alone the next day and we had a fab gallop over the stubble field, and a couple of days later we did a 3 hour ride in the forest with our other friends and she was out in front for most of it. So there was nothing wrong, she just seemed to be picking up a 'can't be bothered' attitude from the other horse, with a touch of mareishness thrown in for good measure. We've worked out a strategy, we're going to leap-frog so that Bambi has to go in front for part of the ride, but the main aim is to get my friend's cob a lot fitter!!

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with a different hacking companion. 

[Hannah]

How would you condition score her at the moment? I am sure this isn't the case as your horse is doing a reasonable amount of work, but I find a lot of people complain their horse is lazy, when actually the horse is just struggling because it is fat. I think it's certainly worth changing her back to what she was on before and see if that makes any difference. I would also have in the back of my mind that there could be cushings/PPID/a virus lurking so a conversation with the vet could be in order.

[Fussymare]

Thanks again - lots of great info here for me. No other signs of PPID, but as the test is free I will have a think about getting it done. But very interesting what you say janwilky - she is turned out with her laid back field companion, and often if we hack with just him she tries to nip in behind him (rather than us riding side by side) and go in to riding school mode behind him, nose to tail! Grrr! If I don't really ride her properly,she will do that for the whole ride by choice. But with other horses (for example if we have a couple of friends join us on a pleasure ride) she wants to be out front, and is definitely up for a faster ride.

She's definitely not fat Hannah. She had IRAP therapy at Newmarket for coffin joint ligament problems a few years ago and was never expected to come back in to work - the vet said she'd only be good for light hacking. So I am very lucky, and am extremely careful to watch her weight as it's not good for her joints or general health. My friend (and the owner of her field mate) is running the AHT/RVC Care About Laminitis study, so we are measuring and condition scoring monthly. She's due to be clipped in a few weeks time, and this often makes her sharper - so will see if she changes behaviour going in to the winter (she is often slower and lazier in the summer heat).

Thanks so much everyone - it's given me lots to think about.

[janwilky]

I must say she sounds like a lucky girl with a five star mum

That's so funny about the tucking in behind and going into plod mode - that's just like Bambi with Duke, yet she isn't like that with any other horse. I suppose there are all sorts of silent messages and communications going on between the horses on a ride that we don't necessarily pick up. Apart from the obvious ones - Bambi can pull SUCH a wicked face if another horse comes too close, she goes straight from cute blonde to evil old witch in the blink of an eye!

Re the clipping, it has been very warm hasn't it and their coats are coming through. I'm going to have to clip Bambi really soon, she was absolutely dripping half an hour into a 3 hour fast ride at the weekend.