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Post by jennyb on Jun 30, 2014 7:57:10 GMT 1
Cookie - you're not the first to say that re female bosses. She has two children of her own, I can only think that she's extremely insecure herself and a bully too. She's really not a nice individual at all. I am reading the Chimp Paradox at the moment and can identify with a lot of the statements in there re people who let their Chimp rule - she definitely does! As much as it galled me to just walk away, I didn't want to let her have any more influence over this stage in my life and I certainly didn't want to mount an expensive and stressful battle which will inevitably drag on for months after my baby arrives. Life is too short, I will let her build (and no doubt ruin, in due course!) her little empire and get on with my own life away from her. It's quite amusing that since she was so awful to me, two members of staff have handed in their notice and at least another two are actively looking to get out, one directly as a result of what she did to me. Karma is working already :-)
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wills
Grand Prix Poster
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Post by wills on Jun 30, 2014 8:09:32 GMT 1
So is it different laws in England & Scotland then? Up here you have 9 months mat leave & can take an additional 3 months unpaid before returning to work & I'm fairly sure employers have to offer some degree of flexibility. I wanted to go back full time but felt pressured into returning only part time by family & society. I went back to my original position & although I worked less hours my targets ect were still the same as full time as a result everything started to suffer and I ended up resigning. I'm sure it was a tactic to get me out the door. That was last May & I worked PT until last month for a lot less money & when my bf & I split up financially it was a total disaster, I had to move back to my mums - still here -, get rid of my car & if it wasn't for my parents I don't know what would have happened to Ori. I'm now back at work 32 hours a week, doing what I want to do & I wish I had done it sooner I am so much happier as a result of that I feel I am a better parent & I feel the closest to being the "me" I was before I was "mummy" if that makes sense?! Everything is looking up. But everybody is different this is what works for us. Rory goes to child minder 2 full days & 2 half days a week. Yes at first I was apprehensive about leaving him with a "stranger" but I researched the ones in our area thoroughly & the standards they have to meet, they really are well regulated. Rory loves his child minder hes never cried when I leave,he is always happy to see me at at 4 o clock. I think the socialising from a young age has been good for him Good luck whatever you decide CM xx
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wills
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Post by wills on Jun 30, 2014 8:19:55 GMT 1
Interestingly enough a law has come in to place to day about the flexible working.
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Post by cookie on Jun 30, 2014 9:49:32 GMT 1
Ah yes Wills the "part time hours and full time requirements" yup recognise that too. I don't think the law is any different. My pay will go to nothing at around 9 months but I can stay off until 12. Employers are obliged to give 'due consideration' to flexible or part time working but aren't obliged to grant it. I've seen a number of tactics used: the boss that kept saying "you can only apply once a year and nows not a good time so you should stay full time until it's more likely it'll be granted"... four years later there's still not a good time and redundancy is likely. Or the boss that says come back full time and see how you go. That resulted in resignation after the obligatory three months. You don't need to pay back statutory payments but any employer top ups theoretically can be claimed back. I'm a stroppy old mare and said to my employer from the outset I'm only coming back if I can go part time so if it's a no say now as I don't want to owe and money.... Jenny, I had a rotten boss once. Always belittling me, was an awful situation to be truthful and always turned to be my fault apparently. Last I heard they lost successive people who had taken that post and the lady in question was signed off on long term sick due to stress and acute breathing difficulties. I don't like to see anyone ill but couldn't help feeling that the way she had lived her life so negatively had ultimately compromised her own health. You are better off out of there! X CM I do hope you and OH can sort something out that suits x x
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Post by jennyb on Jun 30, 2014 11:04:46 GMT 1
Thanks, I agree and can see something similar happening here... You can't go through life treating people that badly and carrying so much aggression and negativity without it taking effect, surely...
Laws same here, SMP paid for nine months, can take mat leave for twelve months total. You have the right to ask for flexible working but they're not obliged to grant your request if it doesn't suit the business. They'd have to be on strong grounds to say no though...
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Post by rosemaryhannah on Jun 30, 2014 21:27:44 GMT 1
Ours is a society which (in general) fails to value children. One gets a lot of comments about people who have them getting too much lee way etc etc. But if people are not supported in having children, who do they imagine will be the Drs. nurses, carers, solicitors, accountants etc they rely on when they age and can no longer take these roles?
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Post by clipclop on Jun 30, 2014 23:39:56 GMT 1
Just playing devils advocate here as I neither have children nor intend to in the future.
For larger companies or those that don't have to adhere to specific opening hours, flexi time or reduced hours should not be an issue.
However, take a small company such as a small retailer. Can't viably afford to have more than 2 staff working at any one time. Flexi time isn't possible as opening hours are set but reduced hours are possible. Say for example an agreement is made whereby the working mother comes in later and leaves earlier to accommodate dropping children off at childcare or school as they get older. That works perfectly for the mother but what it means for the other employee is that a lot of difficulties can arise; nigh on impossible to get an hour off at one end of the day for an appointment. Daren't be ill as there would be no staff until the other employee got there later on. Same worry if stuck in traffic or with car problems or personal emergencies Being unexpectedly left working alone (with often no break) due to the mother having a poorly child and either not coming in or leaving unexpectedly. If this employee then has a children, they can't feasibly be offered the same reduced hours as the first one as there would be no staff at either end of the day. Could that be discrimination against the second one? It's not realistic for a company to take on someone to work an hour at each end of the day and I doubt they'd find someone willing to do that anyway.
I do think it is important for parents to work if they so wish but sometimes companies just can't function suitably if they allow flexibly working hours.
I'm not belittling those with issues with employers here - bullying is unacceptable and the preference should be open and honest discussion of whether a mutually agreeable plan can be agreed on but just wanted to point out that it is sometimes really quite difficult for other staff who are affected.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards
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Post by basilhorse on Jul 1, 2014 14:52:43 GMT 1
How did your hearing go CM? Fwiw I gave up my well paid job to be a sahm and it absolutely was/is the best choice for our family. I have thought about going back to work now that my daughter is in school but she has long holidays and I want her to have those at home not in holiday clubs. I don't have family to help out. I thought about working in a school but they don't allow you to take days off because the school holidays should be enough - I accept this but it means I miss my daughtwr's sports days, school plays, concert performances etc etc etc which I wouldn't be prepared to do. My husband is in agreement that I stay at home. His diary means he often has to miss these important days and he says he can't imagine her doing these things with no-one to watch her. So for now I will stay at home. I try my best to live a frugal life but sometimes I just need to have a coffee and cake out . I do some volunteer working so I don't have a completely empty CV. These days being a sahm can be a bit of a lonely life. I found I had loads of friends when my daughter was a baby but they all went back to work when she turned 1 so I was alone with her a lot. I do live rurally though so I'm sure that's a factor. Good luck with whatever you decide
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Post by cookie on Jul 1, 2014 21:28:00 GMT 1
BH I totally share your feelings on sports day, plays etc. I was quite sad for the kids who's mums couldn't make the mothers day afternoon tea at school. It's a difficult balance. And as for the complex spreadsheets (I kid you not) of holiday clubs and other arrangements for summer hols... Blimey it does make you wonder if it's worth it!
Totally can see where you're coming from too about the loneliness, I can only think of a couple of completely sahm in my circle.
CM I guess we're giving you more q's than A's...
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amber
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Post by amber on Jul 2, 2014 9:49:01 GMT 1
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amber
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,661
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Post by amber on Jul 2, 2014 9:50:55 GMT 1
Just playing devils advocate here as I neither have children nor intend to in the future. For larger companies or those that don't have to adhere to specific opening hours, flexi time or reduced hours should not be an issue. However, take a small company such as a small retailer. Can't viably afford to have more than 2 staff working at any one time. Flexi time isn't possible as opening hours are set but reduced hours are possible. Say for example an agreement is made whereby the working mother comes in later and leaves earlier to accommodate dropping children off at childcare or school as they get older. That works perfectly for the mother but what it means for the other employee is that a lot of difficulties can arise; nigh on impossible to get an hour off at one end of the day for an appointment. Daren't be ill as there would be no staff until the other employee got there later on. Same worry if stuck in traffic or with car problems or personal emergencies Being unexpectedly left working alone (with often no break) due to the mother having a poorly child and either not coming in or leaving unexpectedly. If this employee then has a children, they can't feasibly be offered the same reduced hours as the first one as there would be no staff at either end of the day. Could that be discrimination against the second one? It's not realistic for a company to take on someone to work an hour at each end of the day and I doubt they'd find someone willing to do that anyway. I do think it is important for parents to work if they so wish but sometimes companies just can't function suitably if they allow flexibly working hours. I'm not belittling those with issues with employers here - bullying is unacceptable and the preference should be open and honest discussion of whether a mutually agreeable plan can be agreed on but just wanted to point out that it is sometimes really quite difficult for other staff who are affected. Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards I can very much relate to Clip Clop's posting here as I've literally been through this myself and it's a horrid situation to become entangled in, while at the same time, such a difficult position too for 'new mum'. It's not easy to be the one 'who doesn't have children' and then almost be expected to cover all the hours that 'mum' can't/not cost effective to work and pay for childcare too. There's absolutely no malice intended in my comments, as I do so very much understand both sides... and it's this that's most frustrating as on both sides of the fence, both parties seem to suffer!
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Post by basilhorse on Jul 2, 2014 10:10:14 GMT 1
I am trying to think of all the days that I have been in school for some sort of event over this academic year.
Junior quiz Nativity play Christmas party Christmas concert Carol service House music competition Race for life Whole school sports day Junior school sports day Whole school play Mother's Day prayers Easter music concert Summer music concert Harvest festival Speech day/prize giving
And that doesn't include all the days if she were to join the orchestra, gym team, horse riding team etc etc when she's older
That's over half of a typical annual leave
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Post by basilhorse on Jul 2, 2014 10:17:47 GMT 1
Also just wanted to wish Jenny well for when the time comes. Wishing you an easy labour for when it happens xx
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wills
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Post by wills on Jul 2, 2014 21:21:10 GMT 1
Wowzers BH that is a lot of days! I don't think we have half of those CM - I hope we haven't frazzled your brain!
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Post by KimT on Jul 3, 2014 9:10:29 GMT 1
With that many days couldnt you 'share' them with OH's. I dont have kids and no plans to in the future but if I did I know I couldnt give up work. Not if I want my dogs and horse. The compromise to me would be to share these thisng with an OH so that someone is there for those days.
CM I dont want to be unsupportive but you do need to talk to your OH about it. If money is going to be tight then he needs to be involved because financial troubles can put a huge wedge in a relationship and that could lead to resentment (even if he is supportive of you giving up work).
I hope your hearing went well and you can work something out.
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