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Post by troop on Apr 19, 2014 14:45:34 GMT 1
Oh god i have a proper cringe speak out loud attitude to "seesawing" i cant bare it.
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Post by antares on Apr 19, 2014 14:50:58 GMT 1
No, she's not asking me to seesaw, I know that's bad lol
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Post by jen1 on Apr 19, 2014 17:50:34 GMT 1
Intensifying an open and closed poll can make a huge difference at the beginning to teach open and closed it probably a good thing , then learn what a true relaxed jaw is
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Post by troop on Apr 19, 2014 18:02:35 GMT 1
Sorry i wasnt thinking sawing was advised slight off topic there
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Post by portiabuzz on Apr 19, 2014 18:31:46 GMT 1
Eww see sawing poor mouths
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Post by mollichop on Apr 23, 2014 8:02:24 GMT 1
Did a saddle fitting with a young girl the other day, and her very traditional sister got on to try the saddle but also to 'show me how the pony can really be' bear in mind said gem of a pony is in a 3 ring gag with flash, and was see sawing so hard its head was waving side to side and it still hadn't a clue what was being asked of it Urgh! Poor pony
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Post by portiabuzz on Apr 23, 2014 10:39:53 GMT 1
sadly ive seen this before
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Post by lisap on Apr 23, 2014 21:04:40 GMT 1
Here's something you can try yourself - with a friend - to see whether or not the action you are describing is something that you would like to do with your horse.
Take a bit and a pair of reins. Hold the bit in your hands with palms upward (so that the bit lies across your hands like the bit would lie in a horse's mouth). Get your friend to stand on a box and hold the reins. She/he needs to stand in a correct riding posture, knees slightly bent, with shoulder, hip, heel alignment and with elbows soft and bent. Make sure she is holding the reins so that there is a straight line between the bit in your hands to her elbows and that she is not resting her ring fingers heavily upon the reins.
Now, ask her to 'sponge the reins', firstly one at a time, and then both at the same time. Then get her to rest her ring finger on the rein and get her to do it again. Then get her to straighten her elbows and lower her hands so that there is a 'v' between the bit and her elbow. Then get her to repeat the exercise. Then get her to straighten and brace her knees and lean back slightly. Repeat the exercise....
You can keep experimenting like this and you will feel a change in the bit every time your friend alters her hand/elbow/arm/body.
The reason for doing this? Gently fingering the reins to encourage the horse to relax the jaw is entirely good and proper - if and only if - the rider's posture and position is absolutely correct. Anything out of good position and good rein contact will result in a sawing, hard, horrible feeling for the horse. If only riding instructors could appreciate how important the riders' own seat is before asking them to do anything actively with the reins.
This is the reason that using flexions etc fell out of favour in training, as it takes a lot of skill and understanding to use them correctly and kindly, and people were taught to keep their hands still and not do anything with the reins as it did less damage than fiddling about when the rider's seat was not good enough for the fingers to act independently. If I were to 'sponge' the reins, I would use both hands acting together as using them one at a time will cause the horse's head to wag. Also, just because we use the term 'sponge' to imply softness, does not mean that the horse feels it that way!!
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Post by portiabuzz on Apr 23, 2014 21:35:09 GMT 1
Very informative post Lisa as usual Sent from my GT-I8160
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Post by mollichop on Apr 24, 2014 7:04:59 GMT 1
LisaP has demonstrated this to me and I was amazed at the strength of feeling in my hands that would have been my horses mouth. Even something as simple as 'thumbs on top' is sooooo much more comfortable than lazy hands (thumbs anywhere but on top)!! It has certainly made me much more aware of the effect I am having on my horses mouth
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Post by portiabuzz on Apr 24, 2014 10:33:24 GMT 1
well worth remembering !
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Post by holi on Apr 24, 2014 16:10:34 GMT 1
you have to be so careful as lots of people are jumping on the 'classical' bandwagon. I have lots of theories about this such as increased interest in spanish horses etc but have found over the years that good logical training methods work regardless of where they come from. I have tried to look for people who don't use shortcuts, don't blame the horse, concentrate on riders position and do what works for that partnership - might be classical might not be. MInd you they are as rare as good classical trainers now lol!!
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Post by portiabuzz on Apr 24, 2014 16:34:54 GMT 1
ive seen a fair few instructors advertising themselves as classical round me but they wont tell anything about their classical training hmmm
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Post by antares on Apr 24, 2014 17:22:17 GMT 1
Holi I have tried 4 different trainers in the last few months and only one has made any mention of my position.... Almost everyone else I've ever been to concentrates only on the horse. This is part of the reason my position has been getting gradually worse. This is the year I start to sort it out lol
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Post by jennyb on Apr 24, 2014 22:28:32 GMT 1
I've noticed that too and it really irritates me. Instructors just seem to use the word classical when they feel like it. And a riders position is really critical to the horse, sometimes a tiny adjustment to the rider can have a huge impact on the horse.
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