Lack of confidence on the ground is transferring..

[ggibbons]

Hi, I am new to IH and pretty new to Riding in general here's a quick background to set the scene.

I started riding 7 months ago as my wife was a keen to get back into riding after a few years break. Luckily I took to it and loved it. I found a lovely cob to share at the livery where we ride and was soon hacking out and throughly enjoying myself. I started having lessons on another horse who was a little more forward going than my share horse. He was amazing and with a few months I was jumping him and my confidence was high. I was lucky enough to start sharing this horse and again was happy to hack out on him, galloping and having lots of fun.

I didn't however really have to interact with him on the ground, I pretty much just tacked him up and rode. My jumping and lessons were going great and I decided to enter a show jumping competition. Unfortunately I couldn't use the horse I shared however a friend kindly offered me to ride her horse in the event and I accepted.

I was very nervous for the competition and felt a little out of my depth. During the warm up every time I jumped, the horse would buck on landing. I have a pretty good seat apparently so I sat them fine and entered the arena. I managed to jump the first fence but we ran out at the second and was disqualified. Not too bad a show for my first go and I was happy that I tried. This though I believe was the start of the downward spiral in my confidence. I started to analyse why we ran out, why she was bucking and I couldn't let it go.

I returned to concentrating on my lessons and slowly started to enjoy riding again. We then decided that the time was right to get my own horse. We found an 8 year old that seemed well mannered and steady.

On bringing the horse home, we had a few issues where he was badly mannered in the yard and put this down to it being a new environment . However my inexperience in handling horses has caused me anxiety. Pip sometimes pulls back when tied and often backs up when I try and tack him up. The result being I'm left chasing him around the yard. I then get stressed and anxious and if I'm honest take it personally. The problem is is that this nervousness has transferred to my riding. It also wasn't helped when on the second time I hacked him out he bucked me off and made a run for it. At present it seems like 1 step forwards and 2 back. I have a great lesson and my confidence in my riding rises and then an incident in the yard / on the ground destroys this immediately. Pip can be quite dominant and pushy and is quick to take advantage of people. I have been told I need to be assertive around him and I do try its just I'm not sure what to do in each scenario. Sometimes he is very manic in his stable if he doesn't have hay and he scares me. Its hard to admit but he does put me on edge when he is like this.

So what to do? well I've tried doing join up with him, unfortunately he jumped out of the menage :-) so I have been doing lots of ground work with the Dually halter and desensitisation work with him as we think his he lacks some confidence and it also helps me in my ground confidence.

At the moment I've stopped hacking him out as I'm still nervous after being bucked off. Luckily my wife is hacking him out so that he gets to have fun and new experiences.

I would imagine that the issues I have have been experienced by others and I was keen to hear of any advice that any of you have. I really want to enjoy my riding again and to build a partnership with Pip. I guess I need to take it slowly but surely and I'm lucky that my wife helps a lot when I'm struggling to cope.

Thanks in advance for any advice

Gary

[lroy]

Hi Gary- Firstly I think you are doing really well overall- crickey- not been long riding and entering comps etc- so please don't be too downhearted.
You don't say how long you have had Pip so it may be he is still settling into his new environment. In my epxerience it takes at least six months- sometimes longer for a horse to feel settled and their behaviour can be pretty defensive during this settling time.

When you bought him were you made aware of what his stable manners were like and whither he bucked etc?

Sometime my wee mare is bolshy in the stable- mostly when she's been in too much and its just a case of boredom. I avoid being in the stable with her when she's like this as I would end up crushed against a wall! So I will put her headcollar on and tie her outside to groom etc and this seems to diffuse the situation- or I might turn her out for a wee while and normally she much softer when she comes back in. I make sure I do her hay net while she's out the stable - don't make things hard for you and Pip- there are always ways to diffuse a situation and make a path of least resistance for you both.

Is PIp getting turn out? Cos you have to try and figure out why he bucked- was it cos he was worried about being at a new place- was it high spirits cos he's not been out, or could his back be sore?

I think you are doing the right think by doing lots of groundwork- get him going backwards and forwards through L -shaped poles, ask him to stand, moveover etc.

Sorry prob not been much help but all the best to you - I am sure if you take things slowly like you said everything will come good.

[ggibbons]

Hi, Thank you for the reply. We have only had Pip for 6 weeks and as such I hope that it is him just settling in.

The big bucks on a hack is the thing that is the most troubling for me. As they are big head between the legs 'I want you off bucks'. He had a very thorough vetting including having his teeth and back checked. He also never displays this behaviour when ridden in the school.

We are thinking that he isn't as confident as he makes out. The time he bucked me off was a very windy day and before the incident he was a little nappy (wanting to turn around) and very alert (eyes on stalks etc. Its like every small incident mounts up and then from no where (well it feels like no where for me as I think I miss the warning signs). My wife who has been riding for 20 years can feel when he's going to buck, although he has also surprised her too and got her off. As mention she is now regularly hacking him out and for the last 3 times has behaved / or she has sat the bucks and moved on.

Yes he is getting turned out although when I came off it was after all the snow so he hadn't been worked / turned out for a week or so.

Thank you for the comment re the stable. I have made the mistake of trying to sort his rug out when hes pacing and spinning round the stable when in hindsight I should have just left him settle. I think i was trying to face the fear as I did find it scary. When a better approach would have been to just leave him.

When we bought him his stable manners seemed fine. I went to see him 3 times and he was very chilled and happy. To be fair most of the time he is, its just when there are lots of things going on in the yard, he is also very food orientated, and has pulled back when tied and gone looking for food. I'm working on my confidence and trying not to take it personally when he does this stuff. I know he is just being a horse.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I think I need to relax about it and keep doing what I'm doing as there really is no rush.

Cheers

Gary

[rifruffian]

Yes seven months into riding is a relatively short time; a few people are naturalborn fast-track riders but most of us must beware not to be too ambitious too soon. Last few words of your last post are absolutely right.
With more experience you will become better able to read the early signs of tension in the horse.
Around and upon the horse, one of the most important principles to be maintained is: calm.
If the calm interaction is lost, one of the best things to do is: Nothing........
Just to stand still with the horse until both handler/rider and animal are calm.
As far as is possible, pre-plan the circumstances of each session to achieve calm interaction; ( set yourself up for success every way you can).
Set a small task to be achieved each visit........eventually all the small accomplishments aggregate to something substantial.

[cookie]

Sounds like you are making great progress. I wonder whether, with the best will in the world, you have been a victim of your own success in that you've made good progress and moved quite quickly.

I suggest you go to the main IH site and look for the RA nearest you. A lesson with your own horse with an RA to really refine your technique would be invaluable in my opinion and technique is the basis for confidence.

If you have the funds you could take your own horse on one of kellys courses. I've heard great reports about them and would be quite jealous myself details on the main website.

Sorry to sound like an advert. I really don't have any axe to grind, just know that the little time I've spent with RAs have been really enlightening and that the subtle changes to my technique really impacted on my effectiveness and confidence followed.

Good luck on your journey.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards

[kizi]

Feb 12, 2013 21:07:22 GMT 1 rifruffian said:

Yes seven months into riding is a relatively short time; a few people are naturalborn fast-track riders but most of us must beware not to be too ambitious too soon. Last few words of your last post are absolutely right.
With more experience you will become better able to read the early signs of tension in the horse.
Around and upon the horse, one of the most important principles to be maintained is: calm.
If the calm interaction is lost, one of the best things to do is: Nothing........
Just to stand still with the horse until both handler/rider and animal are calm.
As far as is possible, pre-plan the circumstances of each session to achieve calm interaction; ( set yourself up for success every way you can).
Set a small task to be achieved each visit........eventually all the small accomplishments aggregate to something substantial.

I agree with all the above!
Breath, think and plan.. And ask for help when you think you need it, before you know it!!
And well done so far... It seems your new horse will teach you lots if you want to learn it, which it sounds like you do! Make settling in and getting to know each other as easy as possible!

[lizpurlo]

Totally agree with cookie - get an RA out, or better still, go on one of Kelly's courses. You have a huge advantage in that you haven't got years of bad habits to 'unlearn' before you start learning the right stuff!

You'll find either option inspiring and confidence giving. You've already made a great start with your riding and horse-handling, but it could possibly be that you've just tried to do a little bit too much, too soon, which is totally understandable. So a step back to reconsider the essentials with an inspirational teacher would set you up for success again. Good luck.

[Mellymoo]

Just another thought - if Pip is really food orientated, why not tie up a hay net when he's tied so that he is occupied? When I first got my boy I did this, and he now stands happily tied without food (for a while anyway!). Make life as easy as possible for you both - if he's nomming on hay then you can get on with doing other things. Never understood why people try to work with a horse that is looking for some hay, then proceeds to flatten them or sod off!! Some people disagree with feeding while you are doing something with them, but if they are happy and chilled then it just makes life easier

[somanyhorses]

Little baby steps in my experience often get you to the end goal quicker. Don't set yourself unattainable goals with Pip. Every little improvement is a step in the right direction. The steps back will become smaller and less frequent if you can keep your calm and deal with Pip quietly every time. Your wife sounds very capable... can she be your own personal RA? Watch her and others around the yard. When they get good results, how do they achieve them. Watch their body language, and mirror it if you can. Listen to the tone of their voice when handling situations, and where their eyes are. It's all part of the interaction with horses. When one of mine is stressing about external things that are out of my control I have learnt not to look him in the eye, it seems to make him worse. If I keep my eyes down but continue to work around him quietly, or just stop and wait, he will settle more quickly. Another, as soon as he starts moving around I walk away. I also make sure I am NEVER in a rush around my horses. Good luck, I'm sure you'll get there, you are very aware of the problems and keen to learn. Try to enjoy your time with Pip whatever you do. He will learn to enjoy his time with you too.

[ggibbons]

Thank you guys for all your comments it is very much appreciated.

The last few days have been great with Pip I have completely relaxed in my approach to everything and stopped stressing when things go slightly array. Last night I had an amazing lesson and tacking up he stood still (well for most part, he did manage to steal some hay over the stable door of the neighbouring horse) and didn't get free (It's a small thing but I looking at all the small things as a success :-))
He also stood when I mounted which is a first, I spent an hour on sunday just getting on and off as quietly and gently as I could and also sitting for 30 secs after getting on before we move off.

I agree that I need to slow down and not rush things, I have decided to continue with my ground work and desensitisation and riding in the school to build up a relationship with Pip. My wife is happy to Hack him out so that he gets to see and experience things outside the yard. As hacking him out causes me to stress a little ,I've decided to wait for a while to venture back out myself. Luckily there are other horses that I can hack out so I can get my confidence back up ready for Pip and myself doing it.

Thank you again for all the replies, I've found it amazing since I've been riding how friendly and helpful other riders and owners can be and how willing people are to share their experiences. I love the approach to IH.

I'm loving the idea of attending one of Kellys courses and think that it would be great for both Pip and I. We are off to see Kelly and Montys demo on Saturday I can't wait.

Thank you

[lizpurlo]

That's great news about you and Pip, it's the small steps that build up confidence.

So jealous of you going to see Monty and Kelly on Saturday - they're nowhere near our part of the world this time! Would love to see what you think of the demo too. Have fun.

[mmel001]

Hi Gary

I can't offer more than what's already been suggested here, but it sounds as though you are taking a sensible approach. It can be quite daunting when you are faced with bolshy behaviour and seeming unpredictable behaviour when ridden.

I would say to try and get things sorted on the ground and build up a 2 way trust relationship with your new horse. There are lots of ground work exercises that you can do, and if at all possible try to monitor the chain of events and environment when your horse is bucking, in case there is a pain element that is being triggered by maybe going over certain terrain, or perhaps something that is causing the horse alarm whilst out and about. It might even be worth if you can long lining (once you are confident you are in control) out and about a few times, and if you can accompany your wife on foot whilst she rides out and vice versa it might go some way to help restore your confidence!

Maybe see you at the demo on Saturday!

Mel

[ggibbons]

Thanks Mel. Liz, I will let give you my review of the demo. I tried to get Pip used as a demonstration horse unfortunately we weren't picked :-(

I'm planning lots of ground work exercises as I eat my lunch, I'm alternating each night with ground work one night and riding the next.

[KimT]

Hello Gary,

I totally agree with the above. One of my mares can be manic about food. She is a cob x so is a labrador but one year I had her she was hungry in the field. You can always tell a horse that has been hungry before. I have a few points;

1, If Pip is manic about food, have you tried a trickle style net to make sure he (I assume a he) has hay all the time.
2, Agree with MellyMoo. You could give a net whilst he is being groomed/tacked up. Have you thought of tying up a net and just spending time grooming. It can be very relaxing for both of you and will teach him to stand and relax.
3, Which part of the tacking up process causes him to pull away? Could there be something going on there or has he become headshy from a previous owner? Both can be worked on.
4, If he is safe to lead in a Dually, how about leading him out on walks? Gets you fit and he can see the world too. It will also show you that he is ok out on a hack to build your confidence too.
5, What breed is he/level of work? I am wondering what you are feeding him. Most horses don't need mixers unless in a lot of work. My 2 will cope quite happily on grass, lots of hay and a handful of chaff for supplements. Mine are currently out of work but when Ellie was being ridden daily, that was all she had. My mums tb has a lot more food but it is mostly alfa-beet and alfa. Dont underestimate how much just giving lots of hay will help your horse gain weight.

Lastly- Take the preasure off. We have all (pretty much all of us) been shocked at how different it is owning your own horse. We have also all felt like packing it in/overwhelmed/etc at some point or another. Count the small victories. Each and every one of them. It will help you focus when you feel fed up or stressed. Try to stay calm and relaxed but if you make a plan and Pip isn't in the mood then do something that is a small victory.

I will recommend an RA as well. They don't just help you train the horse, they can also help you.

[ggibbons]

Hi Rugrat, Thank you for your reply:-

1, No I've not tried a trickle style net. I've just googled them and I think he needs one. During the week I ride after work and some evenings when I arrived he's nearly eaten all his hay.

2, In regard to the pulling back, I've been experimenting this week and have found that using a long line through a ring BUT NOT tied seems to be helping a lot. He has the freedom to move around and I can still grab the line if he makes a break for it. It also has very little pressure on him to he doesn't pull into it. So far he has been good as gold and has just stood there and behaved :-). The true test will be the weekend when there is a lot more going on in the yard.

3, The times I have lost him in the yard is mainly when I've removed his bridle he backs away and I lose him. I have however a new approach (for me) where by I keep the reins over his neck so he is still attached to me. Common sense I suppose but another small thing to learn for me :-). I also have relaxed and if he wants to move around a little. I'm not trying to control him. So far it seems to be going ok. I road last night and we had a very relaxed tack up and untack and he behaved wonderfully. I think you may be right that something has happened previously as I've noticed recently that he gets upset when rugging up / removing his rug. Maybe me being over sensitive however when I removed his rug on Wednesday night (in the stable) he went a little manic, spinning round etc. He did calm quite quickly.

4, yes he is safe to lead in the dually, I'll try a walking him, thank you

5, he's an irish sports horse a bit of a mutt don't know his breeding history. Since he's been with us he gets worked 6 days a week now, This is usually a day of riding (around an hr) and then the next day ground work, at weekends my wife Hacks him out (around 8 miles) and he has a day off on Mondays. Food wise simply on pony cubes and chaf. But he has put on a little weight which must be the hay.

Thank you for the advice, the relaxing part is something that I'm working on and slowly getting there. everyone at our yard has been really helpful and understanding. We will get there and its been a fantastic learning curve so far. I'm sure I'll continue to have my ups and downs. However if it was too easy it wouldn't be any fun.

The RA approach sounds like a great idea, I will look for one in my area and get her / him booked asap so I can amend / start my approach on the right foot.

Thanks again

Gary