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Post by donnalex on Nov 15, 2012 10:26:43 GMT 1
Have heard of the event stuff but dont think it would suit me as she is on balanced minerals. Sarah emailed me straight back to say that she is going to look into it and get back to me and when she does I will post it on here. In true geek fashion I have bought myself some Vit D supplement from Tesco, it is not cod liver oil just a little tablet, one a day. I dont do depression and Im not starting now! Seriously though cod liver oil even in a capsule gives me indigestion. The little pills would easily go down a horse in a bucket they are tasteless and tiny. Im not a lover of feeding a grass eater a fish product but will if I should. Wondering if I should bulk buy some of these to add to her feed. They were £1.55 for 90 one a day tablets but they also do a much bigger tub which I presume will work out cheaper and at the moment all their vitamins are on at 3 for 2 so I could get three big tubs for around £10 I think. Maybe I should give her these in the meantime as they dont have calcium in which would unbalance her minerals which have calcium added. How many would a 13.1hh 380kg pony need if they are one a day for an adult? And would they help?
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Nov 15, 2012 12:44:11 GMT 1
A guess would be five a day as that is about five times an adults weight. of course it would depend too on what else the pony is fed any compound feeds will have added vitamins if the pony is on hay and grass only then I can see where you are coming from
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Post by donnalex on Nov 15, 2012 13:39:23 GMT 1
She is on Fast Fibre, a few oats, bran and linseed plus her minerals. And obviously grass and hay. So I doubt there is any vitamin D in there.
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Nov 15, 2012 22:47:07 GMT 1
Fast fibre has a little copied from their web page Vitamin D: 1.5k iu/kg what ever that means
TABLE 2 Author Recommended Allowances of Minerals and Vitamins in Total Rations 900- to 1000-lb Performance Horse, Light to Intense Work
Vitamins
Allowance
Vitamin A
25,000.0 IU
Vitamin D
7,000.0 IU
Vitamin E
500.0 IUa
Vitamin K
25.0 mg
Vitamin C
750.0 mgb
Thiamine
64.0 mg
Riboflavin
40.0 mg
Niacin
120.0 mg
D-Pantothenic acid
60.0 mg
Choline
600.0 mg
Vitamin B-12
120.0 mcg
Folacin
35.0 mg
Pyridoxine
21.0 mg
Biotin
1.5 mgc
vitamin requirement for a performance horse would mean to supply the vitamin d level you would need roughly 4.7kgs of fast fibre per day to supply the 7k ui units needed for a performance horse for an ordinary pony I would guess at about 3kgs per day will supply the needed vitamin d if nothing else is given
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mrsmurchin
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Post by mrsmurchin on Nov 15, 2012 23:34:37 GMT 1
I'm vit D deficient and have been at least since last Oct when I first started self testing using a kit bought from a Birmingham hopsital via the internet. Due to the way the body converts sunlight into vit D (which is actually a hormone not a vitamin), no-one at and above the northern latitude of the uk will be able to absorb enough sunlight during Oct to Mar due to the wavelegth of the rays from the sun. Unfortunately, to get back to optimum levels, the ordinary vit D supplement in the shops is not of a large enough quantity to restore the vit D in the body. I've been taking 5 x 1000iu's a day and the doc is now prescribing me 20,000iu tablets to be taken once a week for 12 weeks.
As for horses, I'm not sure how it works for them as I would imagine the hair would block the sun so well that they wouldn't be able to convert it through their skin. Either that or they don't require the same amount of exposure that humans do because they may be getting enough from their natural diet?
I'd be interested to see if any studies have been carried out for animals. There is certainly a lot of research being carried out for people at the mo.
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Post by donnalex on Nov 15, 2012 23:36:12 GMT 1
She is only supposed to get 500g per day according to her diet plan but I do have to give her more to get her to eat all the yacky stuff. So maybe she gets about 1kg.
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Nov 16, 2012 0:04:51 GMT 1
So she is getting a best a third of her vitamin d requirement from her fast fibre. People do get a level of vitamin d from their diet too so again a supplement of the normal level of VitD will also depend on diet
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Post by donnalex on Nov 16, 2012 10:01:51 GMT 1
Wow mrsmurchin tell us more! What are/were your symptoms? Vit D being a hormone would explain why people who are short of it are prone to depression. But if that is the case would it not be better for doctors to first prescribe Vit D before anti depressants? Up here we are getting so much more sunlight and sunny days than we did in Rossendale, the overcast days are a lot less in general even though it is colder. The hairy Shetlands on Shetland with their very short days has also occurred to me. Maybe horses dont need as much as we do in relation to their size or the fact that they usually dont wear clothes is a factor? Haha we need a nudist colony! Dont think it would catch on somehow And I wonder, what are the symptoms of too much Vitamnin D?
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Post by mandal on Nov 16, 2012 11:23:30 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 11:25:40 GMT 1
She might onloy be getting a third from her fast fibre but presumably she's also grazing for a decent part of each day so is probably getting a lot more from that. I wonder if Sarah would know what typical levels in grass are?
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Post by donnalex on Nov 16, 2012 11:29:22 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 11:41:15 GMT 1
That's a really interesting article. I find it odd though that they'd suggest 30 minutes of midday sun in the summer 3 x a week. That's enough to burn me badly so I would never do that, I'd find it more helpful if they told you what length of time you'd need on an average day mid morning or mid afternoon.
Interesting that they say winter sunlight isn't strong enough. I saw a programme ages ago where they blood tested a group of older people and then asked them to spend 30 mins a day outside in daylight with their arms exposed and after a couple of weeks all of them had an increase in their levels of vit D. That was definitely done in winter as it was saying that winter weather encourages more people to spend far less time outside.
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Post by donnalex on Dec 1, 2012 15:51:30 GMT 1
Got a reply from Sarah today, here it is.
Ok this is what I have gathered:
No dietary intake is needed if the animal has exposure to the sun, how much is needed is unknown but in humans exposing even a part of the body ( eg just the hands) for as short a time as 20 mins per day is sufficient. Vitamin D is also abundant in cured hays, at about 2000 iu/kg which drops to about 39% of this level after a year and 19 % after 2 years so 780 iu/kg and 380 iu/kg respectively. . Horses that are not completely stables out of the sun do not have a requirement for vitamin D. The current NRC recommended intakes for horses not exposed to sunlight are 6.6 iU/kg of adult bodyweight.
I would imagine then that unless your horses was stabled in the dark 24 hours a day, even in a rug they will get adequate amounts from hay and sunlight on their heads and legs.
In terms of supplementation more is not better as overdosing with vitamin D causes calcification of the aorta and other soft tissues, sometimes hpercalcemia and death. Upper safe limit is 44 iu/kg of bodyweight.
I have been giving Georgia a little cod liver oil, will stop that now. Dont want the side effects of too much Vit D. Her eyes are still gooey but Vetericyn is clearing that up a little. Anybody else found anything out on this?
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 1, 2012 17:23:32 GMT 1
Ive been looking at what herbs are high in VitD - eyebright being one of them!
I was interested as Armana has permanently gunky eyes, in the summer we were putting it down to flies but now its just silly. There is no infection there according to the vet or scratches on the lens etc. So going to start feeding eyebright right a while see if there is an improvement!
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Post by donnalex on Dec 1, 2012 18:00:53 GMT 1
The Vetericyn works but I have made her a bit head shy. Have had to tame down my technique, poor pony is now suspicious if I am eating an apple as Ive tried bribery. Not sure how it is supposed to be used, though as it has a mist setting that misting over the closed eye would work but she is having none of it. Now using pad wetted with it quite successfully. Gunky green eye goo reduced by more than half in a week. Maybe the cod liver oil has helped too, not sure.
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